College Out Of High School is a Waste of Money

[disneysteve]

Very timely, I heard a report on the news this morning about this very topic. I believe it was Princeton that announced they are now doing a "gap" program. Swarthmore has been doing it for a while. You apply and get accepted to college and request a deferral for a year. During that year, students work, travel, volunteer, etc. Then they start school with a bit more world and life experience.

I think it is an interesting idea if that gap year is planned and structured somehow and the student has the financial means to do worthwhile stuff. But it still delays entry into real life, raises the cost of college since costs rise 6-8%/year and shortens the working life by a year. It might be a good idea for a small, select group of students but I don't think it is a good idea overall for the average kid.

[Caoineag]

College helped me figure out what I wanted to do. Not only that, by going immediately, I got scholarship money to help me pay for my education ( I didn't get a dime from my father). It may have taken me five years to flounder through but taking time off would have cost me a lot more. I definitely didn't have the resources at home to figure out what I wanted to do with my life.

[jIM_Ohio]

It depends on the motivation of the 18 year old.

The issue is some parents want their kids to go to college because either the parent never had the chance, or the parent believed that's what everyone does at 18.

Both those decisions use bad logic.

If the child wants a CAREER, they should go to college. If they just want a good paying JOB, they can spend significantly less, go to trade school, and earn a living.

If they don't do either, their earning power is limited.

Which leads me to the point that the thread title really makes a conclusion based on bad data. Education is an investment. Education takes time- even HS, middle school, college and trade school. In some cases the costs of that education may not be money well spent. But when looking at earning power, the investment in a college education and professional certification will pay for the education 10X-100X-1000X over.

If someone showed me where I can make 1000X on an investment, sign me up.

My education "cost" me 85k.
I have made 603k in lat 11 years, plus another 50k while in college. I am already at 10X return on the investment and should hit 30X in next 20 years (with 3% raises).

If you wait to go to school, you are losing years on the earning power you create and the ability of that earning power to compound over time.

[Diolla]

It is funny this should come up now because DS and I have been discussing this. He graduates from HS this May and has yet to make plans for college. He took his ACT's and filed his FAFSA but only at my urging. He really didn't want to go straight on to college but wasn't sure what else he might do.

He always thought he would like to work in healthcare but he really doesn't have the drive (yet) to become a Doctor. SO...he has decided to take some beginning nursing classes at the Technical school and get his CNA license; then work while improving his skills and taking additonal classes. If he does like it he would go on for his nursing degree. Basically he will be a student but be working in his proposed field while going to school.

He has also considered taking one or two classes at the local Community College so as to get some of the basics out of the way.

Although I do not agree that going straight to college is always a bad thing I think it would have been wasted on him. He is not a good student, although very intelligent, and lacks focus and dilligence.

Blanket statement rarely apply to everyone. I have a friend with a four year degree and a job at WalMart.

[InDebtInDC]

Originally Posted by MonkeyMama

Likewise, I would recommend going to an affordable school (community college, state) and biding your time until you know what you want to do. Then if you need to go to the expensive private school for your Masters or whatever, you have the means. Plus the first 2 years are just basic requirements anyway. Get those out of the way!

Originally Posted by Diolla

Blanket statement rarely apply to everyone. I have a friend with a four year degree and a job at WalMart.

I believe that it is highly dependent on the student. You must admit that not everyone is cut out for school, and not all schools are cut out for everyone. Everybody learns differently, and each school is different.

That said, 50% of your marketability depends on the type of degree you have and the school you went to. The other 50% depends on your personal background. The education gets you in the door for the interview. The interview gets you the job. Blow either and you won't get the job.

Also, a liberal art degree from an ivy league school isn't worth as much as a technical degree from a state school, but a technical/legal/business degree from an ivy league school beats all.

When I was recruiting for technical positions, my company was very strict. Must have a technical degree with sufficient GPA. Every resume that didn't meet these criteria were thrown out. I disagree with this approach but most companies seem to work this way.

If you don't have a degree, you have to find a company willing to take a chance on you and you have to work harder to earn less than those in the same job but with degrees. Keep that in mind.

Uneducated people love to cite Bill Gates, but Bill Gates has the intellectual capacity beyond what most schools could offer him. The rest of us don't have that trait. On average an uneducated person is likely to get paid less.

At worst, if you pick a good field but absolutely hate the career, you can always take a job you do like knowing that you always have a safety net should you become unemployed. At least you won't starve. If you pursue the long shot with no backup you're setting yourself up to fail.

Originally Posted by jIM_Ohio

If the child wants a CAREER, they should go to college. If they just want a good paying JOB, they can spend significantly less, go to trade school, and earn a living.

I don't think the average person has any problem earning a living. It's trying to be wealthy that's more difficult to get to.

[PrincessPerky]

I figure for me this whole debate is moot...highschool is the pointless experience. At an age where kids should be checking out different jobs/careers they are checking out different cliques/styles.

College is a rather expensive place to check out careers. and career fairs really don't give you an accurate picture of a job. Actually going to work with someone is prolly the best case scenario, but for some jobs rather impractical. Books and video are a decent option..but lack the hands on information (it is all well and good to read about something, but actually doing it/smelling it/feeling it is different)

[Broken Arrow]

Welcome trex. Quite the entrance, coming in swinging. In some places, that may be pegged for trolling... and there's no need for that here, is there?

I find that life is much more than simply taking a stand on a certain issue with some basic points that are mostly but not always completely true, and then having to defend that position from the rest of the crowd.

Most here are fairly easy going. We get into heated debates sometimes, but I think this kind of conversation is crossing the line. Truth-seeking is much more important than trying to be right all the time.

This is all I wanted to say. I prefer not to feed the trolls.

[Snave]

I bet there is a small % of people that went to college and have degrees that would tell you it was a waste of their time. Even if they don't use the degree they have for their current career, I bet most would tell you that it was worth their while and has helped, not hindered, their careers.

[jc3900]

I figure for me this whole debate is moot...highschool is the pointless experience. At an age where kids should be checking out different jobs/careers they are checking out different cliques/styles.

So true. I am in a duel enrollment program and it is amazing how inefficiant my high school classes have been when compared with the college classes I am currently taking. I wish I could have been taking college classes as a freshman in high school. You just get more out of them.

[sweeps]

Then why not do away with school altogether? Everyone will save a lot of money that way, and kids won't have anything distracting them from figuring out what they're good at and what they want to do when they're older.

[PrincessPerky]

Originally Posted by sweeps

Then why not do away with school altogether? Everyone will save a lot of money that way, and kids won't have anything distracting them from figuring out what they're good at and what they want to do when they're older.

Excellent suggestion!

I know I do not plan on allowing schooling to get in the way of my child's education (quote paraphrased from Mark Twain)

[Snave]

I am still on the side of going to college out of high school (for most people). I will throw this out there, however. I have a little one that is 2. We are planning on paying for college. We are currently saving in a 529. However, I did the math and if we have around $200,000 when it is time to for him to go to school (2024) and were to just invest that $200,000 from the time he was 18 to 65 (47 years) instead, it would be worth over $15 million. I know inflation will eat in to that, etc.. etc... but that is still a big chunk of change. I can fund his college, or fund his retirement?! With so many people saving so little for retirement, the latter would probably be better!

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by Snave

were to just invest that $200,000 from the time he was 18 to 65 (47 years) instead, it would be worth over $15 million.

Actually, if you could average 10%/year, you'd end up with over $21.5 million.

[Snave]

I know - which is what I am always shooting for, but plugged in a lower rate to be safe and get the 15 million. 21.5 million made it even worse to think about!

[Dixiechick]

Originally Posted by trex

I don't think it's a broad generalization to say that most high school students don't know what they want to do and would be better served finding out what that is before committing to spend a lot of money.

I also never said I am against college. I'm against people going to college for the sake of that is what they are supposed to do rather than to spend some time to figure it out before wasting money.

Considering the majority of the first 2 years at college fall under general education requirements, I don't think going straight out of HS is a waste even if the kids haven't decided a major. They are exposed to many subjects and free guidance counselor services that they may not get in a minimum wage job (especially right out of HS). Besides, in order for my kids to continue to receive health care coverage, they must be full time students in college. I couldn't imagine the amount of money we'd owe the doctors or hospitals if she wasn't a full time student. She's had some tough luck in the past couple of years with 2 surgeries and 1 more to go... Being in school is never a waste - something is always learned. And the debt factor is partially by choice (community college vs 4-yr vs state vs private vs in-state vs out-of-state, and the degree chosen). I believe there are more advantages than disadvantages in starting straight out of high school.

Sure, if we could do it all over again, we'd all like to think we'd want to explore a couple of years before school. But I doubt we'd all be in better shape than we are today if we did. I KNOW I wouldn't be.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by Dixiechick

free guidance counselor services

I'm not so sure those services qualify as "free" so much as included with tuition.

Sure, if we could do it all over again, we'd all like to think we'd want to explore a couple of years before school.

Nope. Not all of us. I was ready and raring to go when I finished high school and started college. No way would I have wanted to spend another year living at home delaying my entry into college and adulthood. I'm baffled by the trend today of adult children living at home later and later in life. I don't know why these kids don't have the same desire to be independent that I and my peers had.

[JBinKC]

I think it depends upon the major (if it requires direct hands on) and to some extent the timing of receiving the degree but I do see Trex's point. Lots of white collar type of jobs can easily be outsourced.

[myrdale]

I absolutely disagree with the poster. There are alot of folks who don't know what they want to do in life, or next semister and change majors 2 or 3 times. A BIG part of going to college is figuring out what you want to do. However, you shouldn't graduate high school absolutely clueless about what you would like to do. Consider this, out of my class of problem 50 chem. engineers freshman year, I think 40 or so of us graduated from the chem eng. program. I think only 2 dropped out of college, the others changed majors. That's about as tough as it comes, and a majority of the people stuck it out.

Now, I also have a friend who was a 3rd year freshman because all he did was party. Since then he dropped out and joined the Coast Guard and is doing very well. Would it have been "best" if he served first then went to college, probably. Would have gotten to do all the things he did while he was there later? No.

College is an experience. You study, you party, you make life long friends, you study some more, you throw up all over some guys porch, and some where inbetween all of that you find yourself. As for college, you had better grab ahold of it and run with it while you have the chance!!

[tripods68]

After HS I didn't know what I wanted to do. So I joined the Navy for a few years until I figured what I wanted do in life. Joining the military was the best OJT training experience I've ever had. Plus traveling around the world and visiting 25 countries was eye popping experience to say the least. After serving which helped me be more matured, I went straight to college and studied in Finance. But I wouldn't figured out what I wanted to do in life had I not joined. So I would agree somewhat on the original thread, but completely reject the idea that it's a complete waste of time. Expensive sure! But that's how people learn from experience.

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by disneysteve

Nope. Not all of us. I was ready and raring to go when I finished high school and started college. No way would I have wanted to spend another year living at home delaying my entry into college and adulthood. I'm baffled by the trend today of adult children living at home later and later in life. I don't know why these kids don't have the same desire to be independent that I and my peers had.

I think this is more because of the cost of living side of things. When I got out of HS there's no way that I could have paid today's prices on a room in an apartment with today's a minimum wage job. The cost-of-living now is just too much for these HS grads; and no job can support living away unless it's better than a minimum wage job.

I think today's HS grads have a much taller financial wall to get themselves over than I did when I was their age. It was better when we were younger, cuz the cost of living was not that high a hurdle, minimum wages were within the ability to also pay for a one room apt and put ourselves through school too. Not so today.

So Steve, I think it's not so much that today's generation does not "have the same desire to be independent" -- I think they do have this desire; but I think they have problems seeing themselves being able to survive and get ahead financially with leaving home and thus "living-on-the-edge" and making their lives better through college and career and paying for everything financially as well.