I'm Not as Frugal As I Used to Be.

[cschin4]

When I was first getting control of my finances I was very careful, would give alot of thought to every purchase etc. At times, I am sure I bordered on stingy. And, I think it is necessary to go through a time of "money awareness" to get your finances under your control and maximize your use of your money.
But, lately, I realize that spending money now is important as well. We recently took our sons to an NBA game. Pricey but great memories. And, I purchased my kids some musical instruments - piano for my daughter, drumset for my middle son and am awaiting a bass guitar for my oldest son. Some people would think that is a frivolous expense. And, it would be if I had to go into debt to pay for it. But, last weekend I had a medical emergeny, lost consciousness and wound up in the hospital. So, I can say I don't regret spending money on the things I did. Of course, I also have Life Insurance and savings in place for the future as well. I guess my point is not to go too far one way or the other. That there are valid reasons for spending money and that it is a tool to enhance your life.

[disneysteve]

We are definitely not as frugal as we once were. This is in part due to our income rising over the years, which is only natural. When we earned 55K, for example, we needed to spend differently than when we earned over 100K. Even when you look at it in percentages it is different. At 55K, if 10% went to savings, that left us $49,500 to live on (before taxes). At 100K, we could put 20% to savings and still be left with $80,000 to live on.

As far as I'm concerned, as long as all of our savings needs and goals are being met, how we spend what is left isn't all that important.

Of course, we could really rack up the savings if we kept living the same way we lived before, but we wouldn't be happy doing that. You still need to enjoy the fruits of your labor or else it isn't worth it.

[tinapbeana]

FWIW, i don't see buying your children musical instruments at all frivolous. there are studies that show kids involved in music do better in school, so getting them into music is really just another means of helping them with their education. plus, musical involvement is a great stress relief and an interesting venue to flesh out a peer group. oh, and it looks great on a college application too

from a former orchestra geek...

[Ima saver]

I think buying musical instruments is great!! My husband loves cars and I know when he semi retires, he is going to build himself a car. It might seem like a waste of money to some, but it will bring him so much enjoyment!! That is what he is working so hard for.

[kealina]

Originally Posted by tinapbeana

FWIW, i don't see buying your children musical instruments at all frivolous. there are studies that show kids involved in music do better in school, so getting them into music is really just another means of helping them with their education. plus, musical involvement is a great stress relief and an interesting venue to flesh out a peer group. oh, and it looks great on a college application too

from a former orchestra geek...

i agree with tina...

from a former Sociology major and band geek...

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I've decided you can't take your money with you. In-laws are millionaire who still don't like to spend money at all. Make DH feel guilty all the time, part of our arguments stem from his lack of wanting to spend money.

So I'd rather die broke (or as close to it as possible), and happy then miserable and a millionaire. Although if I were to have millions upon millions it's a different story.

[Ima saver]

I would rather die happy and RICH!! I don't want to eat cat food in my old age and that is what many have to resort to.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by LivingAlmostLarge

So I'd rather die broke (or as close to it as possible)

And that could work just fine if you happened to know in advance when you would be dying so you could plan to not outlive your money. Since my crystal ball is a little foggy, I'll keep on saving because I have no idea how much money I will need or how long it will have to last. Plus, if I do die prematurely, I want to leave plenty behind for my wife and daughter to live comfortably. So I'm with Ima. I want to die happy and rich.

[scfr]

I also have loved ones I want to make sure are well taken care of after I'm gone (most especially my DD brother) so I will take a plot in the "happy & rich" cemetary next to Ima & Steve!

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by scfr

I also have loved ones I want to make sure are well taken care of after I'm gone

And don't forget charitable causes. I plan to bequeath money to my synagogue, my college and maybe a couple of other places.

LivingAlmostLarge - I do get your point and agree that there needs to be a happy medium. You can't save and save and never spend because you'll be miserable. Trust me. We enjoy our money.

[Aleta]

I saw my step-father work every holiday and saved every penny he could to the degree that they rarely went on vacation. He died at 66 and was never able to enjoy it. My mother never learned about finances so she went through her money pretty quickly. She is a good person but she just became too generous with too many people.
My father-in-law saved very little and is still alive today at 87 in June. He rarely saved money and never denied himself anything and has many money problems today because of his expectations.

As Steve has so wisely said, there has to be a balance. Which is why I liked All Your Worth by Elizabeth Warren. She set priorities and after you had met your priorities, then you could spend your wants any way you want. You do have to have some fun in life, but by the same token - you have to be wise and be like an ant and work hard and store up some stuff for the future.

[JoyJoy]

I have never seen a Brink's truck following a hearst to the cemetery. Save and enjoy some of your money. Leave an inheritance for those you love; if you can't leave money...leave a wonderful memory.

[MonkeyMama]

Agreed. We used to pinch pennies because we had no choice, but now we can save a significant portion of our income and have plenty of left to enjoy. We live totally differently now - many more luxuries. But gosh even in tighter times we always allowed some enjoyment in some form, of our money.

Interestingly, my parents were probably stingy to a fault, and then a young relative died very suddenly when I was still quite young and they did a total 180. After that point I was raised with much more balance as my parents decided to enjoy life a little more (and the fact they made way more money at that point than they had in their younger years - but they would have scrimped every penny, maybe for a long time, if not for such unfortunate circumstances).

But I totally agree, if you are doing well, goals made, money to burn, who cares what you do with it?

Moderation is definitely good in everything.

[JoyJoy]

My aunt, age 91, is in stage 4 of Alzheimers. She retired 30 years ago and took only one trip and that was to visit my mom in 1988 in Michigan. My aunt has amassed a fortune, but nursing home care will eat all of that up. She never wanted to travel or spend money period after she retired and her husband passed. One has to respect her wishes. I do. I respect her wishes enough to know that I don't want to follow her same path.

I'm going to check out that book by Elizabeth Warren; thanks Aleta!

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Steve and Ima, everyday now I tell my mom spend it like your going to die. Because I don't want their money it would be tainted almost to be honest. I hope they enjoy it and don't feel obligated ot leave it to us.

I also do not want to be held under a guilt trip forever like my in-laws try to do to us. We never took a penny or asked but they try and use their money as a trump card. Not appreciated.

Also because my in-laws are so cheap, I've come to realization that my husband has major issues with spending money. He makes comments about himself like "I don't deserve this," "we can't buy this because it costs xxx," "we're not millionaires,". This attitude and behavior is slowly changing, but it takes a lot of work.

Being taught that you are unworthy of money, that it is selfish, greedy, spendthrift can cause major harm. My in-laws meant well, and have saved a fortune, they are millionaires, but they have also warped their children in some ways. DH grew up with one of everything, nothing wasted, and nothing allowed. Not even food, there was a set meal and that was it. Then if they were hungry, they were allowed to go eat soup from the kitchen. My in-laws enforced minimalism to a point, where my BIL came to our house and went to town eating when I said "pour yourself juice/soda/whatever and eat whatever you want..." They were not allowed this freedom at home.

And it's because my in-laws were overly concerned all the time about MONEY. MONEY MONEY MONEY. The bottom line was always a dollar not spent was key.

I hate that attitude. And I plan on not outliving my money, just close to broke and I plan on havin $100k when I die. And I'm planning on living to 105. So I am thinking I won't die as broke but close to it.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by LivingAlmostLarge

my in-laws were overly concerned all the time about MONEY. MONEY MONEY MONEY. The bottom line was always a dollar not spent was key.

Certainly what you describe is a problem to the point of being pathologic. Some people get really hung up on money and control issues with money and that isn't healthy for anyone, so I can see where your line of thinking comes from.

Personally, we aren't like that at all. We enjoy our money. We happily spend on things that are priorities for us, like travel. We go to Disney World annually, have taken 3 cruises in the past 5 years, spent 2 weeks in California in 05, a week in Vermont last year and will be doing 2 weeks in New Hampshire this summer. We donate regularly to our synagogue and other charities. We dine out regularly.

I expect that I'll get an inheritance when my mother dies, since I'm the sole heir, but there are no strings attached to that money. My mom is very generous now, often picking up the tab if we eat out or buying my daughter new clothes each season or whatever. And she vacations with us periodically as well.

I was raised in a much more balanced household. Saving for the future was important but enjoying today was also important. And I turned out the same way, and we're trying our best to raise our daughter the same way.

Another reason for saving regularly is so our daughter isn't stuck supporting us when we are elderly, a position many adults are now finding themselves in. You just need to find the balance that works for you and your family.

[thekid]

I'm in a similar situation with regards to in-laws, LivingAlmostLarge. Honestly, I wish the situation was very different as it really fudges your views on things.

I was raised in a middle class household. My parents where very responsible with their money, but still enjoyed their lives and let me have complete control over how I lived my life. My gf's parents seemed to be much more frugal (to a fault) and have always controlled my gf's spending habits (and more) through guilt. They are very, very generous with her, they just want to control her/us to be like them.

When I graduated, I had the chance to very quickly earn a high income. I upped my living standards some, but still saved a large portion of my income. I thought all was well. My gf was much more frugal and I really didn't know what the problem was. When we looked at our current financial situation and when we projected it to the future, all seemed very well. However, there was always this impulse to gather more /enjoy less from her side. It didn't sit too well with me. After a number of years, she let me know that her parents were multi-millionaires. They had successful small businesses and had always lived very frugally. From where they are at now, their very conservative portfolio returns many many times their living expenses. This actually let me to feel very inadequate. Everything seems to be relative and I passed from the viewpoint that I was doing well (was earning six figures and had saved close to 150K$ in the first 5 yrs of full time work) to the viewpoint that I was actually in a very insecure position. It became ridiculous. It has taken some adjustment, but my gf and I now seem to see eye to eye with regards to how to handle our personal finances. Every once in a while, differences still emerge with regards to long term goals. I just don't see the point of going down the path of her parents. Being financially independent at a fairly young age is great, not if the price to pay is to not live life. Like mentioned above, it can become pathological. A goal in of itself. It makes so little sense to me.

[JoyJoy]

[quote=disneysteve;115436] Some people get really hung up on money and control issues with money and that isn't healthy for anyone,


As always a lot of logic in your posts, disneysteve! The keyword is CONTROL. I know it was in my aunt's case. My mother was never wealthy in her own right, but we were wealthy in knowing that we were loved and provided for to the best of her ability.

Having money is not a curse. Worshipping or thwarting someone's efforts to attain money because you want control of them to do as you say or please, to me is evil.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

JoyJoy, you say your aunt has amassed a fortune, and that she will use the entire fortune for her basic needs which is what nursing home care is. This does not seem like a negative thing to me. If nursing homes require a fortune and she needs a nursing home, then it is a darned good thing that she had the forsight to save for her elderly years. Who else could come up with the money to pay for her?

[LivingAlmostLarge]

See I think my parents have a healthy balance of trying to enjoy themselves while saving money. My dad still stays things ilke I want to leave it for the kids, but we say NO! Spend it and enjoy life. And yes part of it is because we are financially able to care for ourselves.

My parents travel a lot (ie japan every other month), have a couple of homes, provide for my grandmother a car and home, so I get having to save a lot of money. They had to or else they wouldn't be able to help my mother's parents. But if they worked this hard and didn't enjoy it I'd be so upset that they left me a ton of money but THEY never had fun.

And yes it's pathological. But I'm not sure that people realize that money is not the end all be all.