Amazing Health Care Secret

[cornflakesdisease]

Did you know that when you go to the emergency room to treat a sprained ankle, you will be billed for $750 for $55 worth of actual services, x-rays, medical equipment, and cost of time of treatment people?

And if you don't pay that $750 bill with it's actual $55 in real cost, they will sell that bill to a debt collecting service for $175.

So they profit $120 on that. Now I see why they keep building hospitals a and medical facilites all over my part of town. Because they can afford to.

But if it were nationalized, dear God, it would actuall cost what it costs and it would be controlled!

Dam, but that would make sense.

[sweeps]

Thanks Hillary. Say hi to Bill for us.

[pearlieq]

Originally Posted by sweeps

Thanks Hillary. Say hi to Bill for us.

I think Hillary's been dipping into the hooch again!

We're getting bombarded by pearls of "wisdom" today!

[ilr58]

If everyone that used the emergency room paid their bill then the cost would decrease dramatically. However, the uninsured and those without adequate medical coverage (and even those with deductibles that they cannot satisfy immediately but only with a payment plan) when they do not pay then they cause the hospital to eat the cost. With that comes the overpriced amount across the board.

[dexter]

Could you back up your information with links to facts? My job for many, many years was doing cost analysis for hospitals. Your numbers are way off.

[genmed]

Umm.. I have to agree your numbers seem pretty far off. I can tell you the "real cost" is much more then that. Also the $750 for a sprained ankle billed seems high. I've seen several total bills for broken ankles in the ER and they are $250 less.

[cornflakesdisease]

My wife sprained her ankle missing the step on our stairs. That was what it cost for 1) x-ray 2) four days tylenol 3 pills, 3.) ace bandage 4." nurses time. $750.00

As for the anti-nationalized health care people. People are going to get hurt and sick. You either

1. let them die (as Jesus would, right?)

2. spread the risk to everyone

Think carefully, because 1 and every 3 of us will get cancer in our lifetime.

Most people against nationalizing health care have money, access to good insurance, or feel your "minorities" will "get on down the welfare/healthcare". (Dam bigots)

Doctors should be the gatekeepers.

PS most of the high cost of health care is prescription drugs, medical equipent, and administrative costs.

For profit healthcare makes as much sense as for profit wars.

[JanH]

I am not fully informed on the national health care issue. And while I believe EVERYONE should be able to receive healthcare through some sort of universal insurance or something, I worry about the federal government (I DO appreciate democracy and our country) being able to administer a national health care. I mean, they have enough trouble administering the stuff they have now. Do we think they will be able to set up something efficient and helpful? Or cost effective? Would it work?

[ilr58]

Most people against nationalizing health care have money, access to good insurance, or feel your "minorities" will "get on down the welfare/healthcare". (Dam bigots)

Bringing poor people into this particular discussion does not apply because the United States already has universal healthcare for low income people: Medicaid. (The United States also has universal healthcare for the elderly: Medicare).

If you can't afford insurance then the government has instituted the Medicaid program. If you don't obtain some form of health insurance then you are irresponsible.

As far as the "dam bigots" comment only a liberal would attempt to equate this with some form of racial discrimination. You are being extremely intellectually dishonest with yourself. Let's be real here (and I am not even going to get into the "for profit wars" nonsense).

[sweeps]

Originally Posted by ilr58

Bringing poor people into this particular discussion does not apply because the United States already has universal healthcare for low income people: Medicaid. (The United States also has universal healthcare for the elderly: Medicare).

If you can't afford insurance then the government has instituted the Medicaid program. If you don't obtain some form of health insurance then you are irresponsible.

There are lots of people who can't afford quality healthcare whether eligible for Medicare/Medicaid or not.

[Fern]

Originally Posted by cornflakesdisease

Did you know that when you go to the emergency room to treat a sprained ankle, you will be billed for $750 for $55 worth of actual services, x-rays, medical equipment, and cost of time of treatment people?

:

The cost of actual services, x-rays, medical euqipment and cost of time of treatment people cost a lot more than $55.

[gackle]

Originally Posted by dexter

Could you back up your information with links to facts?

Alright, cornflakesdisease, you showed your example for the $750 bill, now we need your documentation for the $55 cost.

[ilr58]

There are lots of people who can't afford quality healthcare whether eligible for Medicare/Medicaid or not.

Unfortunately, that is true but I would submit that the vast majority of those same people that cannot afford quality healthcare and don't qualify for Medicare/Medicaid cannot afford it because of choices that they have made (poor budgeting, lack of financial discipline, etc.).

I do not think that it is the government's responsibility (meaning really, everyone's responsibility to take care of people that are not financially disciplined. Definitely, there should be programs in place to take care of the poor and elderly [Medicaid and Medicare] but as far as you and I footing the bill via higher taxes for people that cannot budget then I say no thanks. Yes, that's right, I would rather have some people give up some of the things that are really luxuries like a brand new car and drive a used car in order to afford health insurance then for them to go ahead and purchase the brand new car knowing that my higher taxes will pick up the slack due to their poor or nonexistent financial planning).

Many that would simply get serious about being disciplined with their finances would be able to afford top notch healthcare, save for retirement, save for the kid's college bills, etc. rather than buying a new flat screen tv, buying a new car and who knows what else.

[tinapbeana]

Originally Posted by ilr58

Yes, that's right, I would rather have some people give up some of the things that are really luxuries like a brand new car and drive a used car in order to afford health insurance then for them to go ahead and purchase the brand new car knowing that my higher taxes will pick up the slack due to their poor or nonexistent financial planning).

Many that would simply get serious about being disciplined with their finances would be able to afford top notch healthcare, save for retirement, save for the kid's college bills, etc. rather than buying a new flat screen tv, buying a new car and who knows what else.

perhaps it's just me, but doesn't the educational system (and therefore the government) hold some of the blame for folks who suffer from non-existant financial planning? none of my schools taught me the first thing about real-world finances. my economics class cover things like 'supply and demand' not 'saving for retirement and avoiding debt'.

yes, it is the parents' responsibility. but, until we have a system that ensures all parents are responsible (HA!), then we have a government there that is supposedly picking up the slack when it affects the public good. while this may be the case for issues such as sexual health and eating right (which are covered in schools because someone didn't learn it at home and needs to), it's almost never applied to personal finance.

those who are cynical might think it's because there is less profit in financially responsible teens and young adults...

[sweeps]

I agree with you, ilr. But let's be honest -- the incentives have to be there. There are a lot of busy, disinterested, uneducated, distracted, unmotivated and/or foolish people out there. Telling someone "if you didn't buy that new car, you wouldn't be dying from diabetes right now" isn't going to help much. We need a plan that is simple and provides the right incentives.

I know you probably want details, but I'm too busy, disinterested, uneducated, distracted, unmotivated and foolish right now.

[ilr58]

I agree with you, ilr. But let's be honest -- the incentives have to be there. There are a lot of busy, disinterested, uneducated, distracted, unmotivated and/or foolish people out there. Telling someone "if you didn't buy that new car, you wouldn't be dying from diabetes right now" isn't going to help much. We need a plan that is simple and provides the right incentives.

I know you probably want details, but I'm too busy, disinterested, uneducated, distracted, unmotivated and foolish right now.

Very true, I agree - good post. It just kind of makes me very uneasy when people clearly make poor choices in their lives and then rush to blame the government (as if it was the government's fault for them not being responsible).

You use the term incentives which makes me think that you potentially would enjoy a podcast from the consulting arm of Deloitte & Touche: Taking the Health Care System Off Life Support: A New Alternative for Insuring More Americans but then again I'm sure you are too busy, disinterested, uneducated, distracted, unmotivated and foolish right now.

[boefixepa]

If it's true for health care, it's true for education, car insurance, food, retail etc...

Oh my! That's socialism or communism! Whatever name you want to call it!

Is there a problem sure...is government the answer???

I don't think so. I think personal responsibility is. When we quite using that, then government will take over and we will see where we end up.

[genmed]

The $55 cost analysis:

The nice (or not so nice) lady who took your information originally $12/hr, 10 minutes $2

Then the nice triage lady who is a nurse or nursing assistant $12, 10 minutes $2

PA/NP//Dr $30/hr (low, around here the salary is higher for all these jobs, but just trying to get to our $55), 20 minutes $10. The "4 minutes" to see a NP/PA/Dr does not include the time to read the x-rays (sure let's say 5 minutes, but bear with me, the time to write charts - I've done it, it's a pain, the time to write the order to get the x-ray, the time to write/get the perscription. Sure each of these takes "5 minutes" -- and they add up)

X-ray technician $12/hr, 10 minutes $2

Film and chemicals/digital (not including the machine which is $250-500k each) $10 for 2 xrays

Crutches $10-15

Bandages/Soft cast $10-15 (or more depending)

Tylenol no 3 -- how many pills? Let's say $5

So yeah... you could come up with $55 dollars in this scenario.

Now add in your % of the bed ($7-50k each), electricity, vital signs (blood pressure machines $3k), billing, the technicians to fix the equipment (keep it up to date, the disposables on the equipment), the cost of laundry of sheets ($2 minimum usually more), costs to clean and sterilize, don't forget employer expenses (401k, vacation time, health services, social security, continuing education costs, malpractice insurance)....

My point is the hospital costs are probably closer to $100-150. Add in the people who don't pay, the insurance (medicare/medicaid) that pay less than costs. Does $750 seem high -- yes it does. My husband broke his leg last year and our ER visit was $400. I'm sure costs vary with region to region and if you're bill's so high, maybe so are the salaries and other costs.

You argue medical equipment is high. Yes it is. If you were to just have a blood gas drawn you're looking at the cost of sterile gloves (and probably nonlatex per a lot of hospital and safety policies now) at $10, a sterile one use syringe $5, running the lab results $5-10, time to draw blood gas and hold the pressure $10, person to deliver the blood gas (stat or it's no good) to the lab on ice labeled...

Actual medical equipment is VERY expensive. They have to be calibrated, inspected, serviced, disposable parts replaced on certain intervals. The most cost efficient hospitals have a whole department just to do this, others have contracts. Hospitals have a lot of hurdles to jump through to stay accredited, and even with all those safety checks... it's not perfect (and that's for another discussion). Universal healthcare isn't going to diminish these costs.

Oh and my favorite the costs of electrical outlets in hospitals! You can pick up an electrical outlet at your local home improvement store for $1.50, the hospital grade (and hospitals HAVE to use these) outlet $35.

If the insurance games, the differences in reimbursement, the nonpayment of services, the write-offs (Hospitals do believe it or not write off a lot of costs as "lost" because they can't bill for it. Especially that bloodwork you needed for a diagnosis, but your official diagnosis doesn't call for that test). I'd support a universal healthcare that works. I doubt it would bring down costs as dramatically as your thinking though. I also seriously doubt this country could and would come up with a universal healthcare plan that can and would work. Other countries with universal healthcare, such as Canada and the U.K. have people on waitlists to get procedures that they need. Who's going to agree to that?

My problems with Medicaid it's really not universal coverage for low incomes.. now guidelines vary to state to state, but for several you don't qualify if you are above the federal poverty level or have assets greater than $2k-2.5k per person. Federal poverty levels are a little over $13k for a family of 2 and $20k for a family of 4. Do you own a home? Do you own a car? Do you work at a job that doesn't provide healthcare?
Imagine being married as a family of 4 making $20k before taxes, and you have a car and maybe a small house. For some of you.. common medical expenses are going to seem okay, for others can't even imagine. Now add in wellness checkups... Ooh and $9/hr (I can think of lots of jobs that pay this amount) isn't 20k, but maybe you make $11 an hour and now are at $22k? Some states cover all children, some don't. Are you lazy because your job only pays $11 per hour?
Look up your state's Medicaid guidelines, it's an interesting read here.

[PRICEPLUS]

There are lies, damn lies, and then there are statistics. National Health care is great? Why are Canadians coming here for medical prodedures? Don't have the answer but I know that the government is not it!

[sakigt]

Could you iimagine how expensive our food bill would be if anyone who was desperately hungry could walk into a grocery store and get food for little or no cost?

Just a thought.