What do you think of Bush's healthcare proposal?

[LivingAlmostLarge]

It's not very wise. Actually really stupid.

[tinapbeana]

Originally Posted by ilr58

Once someone obtains health insurance then there are laws in place to make sure that no matter what happens they can always keep coverage (COBRA and HIPAA) - all they have to do is simply pay their premiums.

um, have you SEEN the COBRA premiums?

when i got laid off, i had the opportunity to maintain my coverage for the low low price of $350 per month for only me. it would have been about $700 per month to continue covering my husband, too. seeing as my unemployment benefit at the time was maxed out at $1212 per month, maintaining our medical coverage under the 'fair and magnanimous' COBRA plan would have left me unable to pay for other things such as the house payment, utilities, or food. not to mention legal obligatiosn such as credit card payments.

so, i'd be homeless or delinquent on my bills, but at least i'd have medical coverage not sure how that makes sense for a more responsible choice...

[ilr58]

Unfortunately, you are right about the cost of COBRA. Many don't realize how much of the cost their employer is really picking up until they see the full price of group coverage. At least the COBRA laws cap the cost of the plan at 102% of the total cost for what everyone else on the plan pays.

Everything else being equal, group health insurance rates are approximately 2-3 times the cost of an individual plan, If you are healthy then you should apply for an individual plan. If not, then COBRA has to be exhausted before you are HIPAA eligible (where at least you can choose a lower cost health savings account or other high deductible health plan).

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by cornflakesdisease

Most doctors become doctors because they care about people and that field fascinates them. not to make big bucks $$$$.

This is true, hopefully, but as much as people don't like to admit it, medicine is still a business. Doctors have to pay rent, staff salaries, insurance premiums, purchase supplies, attend continuing education programs, etc. It is quite expensive to be a doctor. And that's not even counting the cost of becoming a doctor. I don't know how med school works in Canada, but here in the US, a newly minted doctor most likely has well over $100,000 in educational debt to repay. I graduated with $102,000 in loans and that was nearly 17 years ago. I'm sure the numbers are much higher today.

[gackle]

Originally Posted by cornflakesdisease

Many business move opperations to countries with national health care because they save money (like Toyota opening in Ontario rather then USA).

cornflakesdisease, you seem very passionate about what you believe and I give you credit for that. But I have noticed in your posts that you spout off a lot of facts and make assertions, some of which are questionable, such as the $55 worth of services for a $750 hospital bill (which you have yet to give us your documentation).

As for your assertion above, Toyota has 13 manufacturing plants in the U.S. and only 3 in Canada (1 of which is your Ontario plant that doesn't even open until 2008). Toyota even opened a plant in San Antonio, TX as recently as November 2006.

My point: your credibility rests upon how well you can convince your audience that you're believable and you're not doing a very good job right now. Logical and informative debate in a forum like this depends upon people presenting facts. We'd love to hear what you have to say, but please give us the facts, just the facts sir.

[gackle]

I was just made aware of this website that details mean* wait times for procedures or to start cancer treatments in Canada. Some examples are:

• 13.0 WEEKS for gynecologic cancer at the Durham Regional Cancer Centre in Ontario
• 19.0 WEEKS for a carotid endarterectomy with surgeon Dr. James Dooner at Greater Victoria hospital in B.C.

*they define mean wait times as 50% of people waiting have been helped by that time. So half of the patients had to wait even longer than the time listed.

That's just craziness.

[bigsaver]

Agree with disneysteve. Medical school is damn expesnsive, and so is undergraduate. From medical school I owe around $186,000, and that was from a public state medical school. College cost me areound $130,00. I am personally sick and tired of hearing how doctors make too much money.

[cicy33]

Originally Posted by tinapbeana

um, have you SEEN the COBRA premiums?

when i got laid off, i had the opportunity to maintain my coverage for the low low price of $350 per month for only me. it would have been about $700 per month to continue covering my husband, too. seeing as my unemployment benefit at the time was maxed out at $1212 per month, maintaining our medical coverage under the 'fair and magnanimous' COBRA plan would have left me unable to pay for other things such as the house payment, utilities, or food. not to mention legal obligatiosn such as credit card payments.

so, i'd be homeless or delinquent on my bills, but at least i'd have medical coverage not sure how that makes sense for a more responsible choice...

I am a Cobra Account Processor (sounds impressive don't it!) Its not, I am a processor of paper. But anyways, you have no idea how many people think that COBRA is a seperate insurance, it is not. It is the cost of what your employer was paying plus 2% for admin fees. I had a lady ask once why it was going to cost her double now. I adv her that while she was employed the employer paid part and she paid part but now she has to pay the whole premium since she is not employed anymore. COBRA is opportunity to continue GROUP health insurance not private, so you get better coverage for a lower price than if you paid private for the exact same coverage. And interesting enough if you have a serious illness, like cancer, or dialysis, there are groups that will pay your premiums so that their bills get paid. and some hospitals will do it too. Sometimes it is for one month sometimes it is for 18. So if you lose your job and have a serious illness where your meds are like $5000 a month (and yes that is real) then you can contact these groups and they will help you. I don't know who they are, I just know that we are contacted frequently by members that say their bills are going to be paid by the Kidney foundation and stuff like that. These places realize that paying an amount like $500 or even $700 or more is still better than not getting their treatments paid for which are like $40,000 and more! Don't get me wrong if I lose my job I am screwed! I can't afford cobra either. I just want people to understand there are options out there and maybe if you know someone or are someone and are really sick and think you are in trouble cuz you can't afford those treatments do a little research first.