Career change - would you do it?

[thekid]

Greetings all,

I haven't posted much on these boards, but do visit regularly as I enjoy reading many of you. That being said, I wanted to bounce around a possible career change that I may have to decide upon in the next few months. A major component to the decision will be financial, so I figured I'd get a sense of the board's opinion.

I am currently a corporate attorney. Have so been for five years. My current compensation is a little over 100k$ a year.

Some time ago, I applied to a governmental agency in my area of highest interest, that being international relations. I have never really enjoyed the work of a corporate attorney and, like many people in the profession, got into the job because I was offered a high paying job out of law school and figured I'd make a few savings before deciding for the long haul. Like many others in the profession, however, I have also gotten used to the income and find it harder and harder to take a significant pay cut to pursue other objectives in different fields.

A few weeks ago, I was contacted by the said federal agency. The position is right in what I have always seen myself doing. The cons: the job is based in the capital (I would have to move) and the pay scale for that particular position is 55k$/year to 70k$/year (with possibility of promotions after that).

Growing up, I have always felt that a salary in that range was good. Without noticing too much, I no longer seem to feel that way.

I haven't bought a house yet. Have a new car on which I owe about 5k$. Have about 70k$ in out of retirement savings (much of which was marked to go towards a house) and 55k$ in retirement savings. My girlfriend, with whom I live, would also have to move (her job would permit her to do so). She has a little more savings than I do, but makes less money.

I am going to be 30 years old soon, want to get married, buy a house and start a family fairly soon. That is why I wish to settle the direction of my long term career now as the uncertainty of the last few years has kept me from making long term commitments.

Sorry for the excessively long post, but I would like to get some feedback. Would you do it? Trade in a high paying career you know you don't like for a medium paying career you think you might like?

Thanks.

[fairy74]

Hi there, I am also an attorney that took a higher paying job (my real love is public interest law) basically like you. I am going back into public interest in the spring. It is true that the salary is lower but there are many benefits, doing something you enjoy, no billable hours, etc...It sounds like you have your financial life pretty well under control and you have two incomes coming in, so just my two cents, I'd go for your dream job.

[MonkeyMama]

Would I do it? HEck yes!

Should you? Only you really can decide.

I do have some concerns for you though. When you mean the Capitol I assume you mean DC. The Capitol itself is VERY pricey when it somes to housing. I notice this because I have a client who lives there and it is insane by San Francisco standards (which is pretty insane). That being said, just research the area carefully before you decide - seems like there is a lot of more affordable housing outside the city - in the surrounding states. At least overall I think there are options.

I just point that out because I am right there with you. I can push forward in my career for a high-stress six-figure job, but I Am just not interested. However, to survive on the range you describe we caould not have done it and be home with our kids where we lived (near san francisco) so we moved. Moving somewhere cheaper was key for us settling for a lower wage.

Things to think about - if you want a family soon and a spouse to stay home, is that salary really going to cut it in that particular area? On the flip side I know too many people lured to the SF area by "high" wages just to find COL was far more expensive than they could ever imagine, they end up being far behind, it's a revolving door. I just don't want you to be blindsided by that, on top of working with a lower wage. Research, research, research. Though you are not being lured in by wages obviously, you still need to know how the COL will really compare to where you are at now.

Another thing to really consider is if you are going to do a change like this best to do it early before you have a house and a family. You can always change your mind if you are not happy, right? Sounds like you have considered that.

Well good luck!!!

[vsjhoc]

I did it, but I can't tell you what to do. MonkeyMama is correct, COL here in DC is outrageously high. You'll probably need to earn on the higher end of that scale and live in the 'burbs of VA or MD.

But nothing in life is permanent (except children). If you don't like it, you can do something else. There are hundreds of law firms here if you chose to go back into the lion's den.

[thekid]

Thanks for the replies. I should have specified that I am Canadian, so the capital, for me, is Ottawa. I currently live in Montreal, about 2 hours drive away. The COL in Ottawa is about the same as in Montreal. Over the last few months, we had looked at houses in the 300k$ price range (which would get us a nice newer home). To make things easier, should we make the move, we would look more into the 250k$-275k$ range. My girlfriend can fully pay her half cash. I am looking at putting a cash down of around 65k$ and getting a 15 or 20 year mortgage for the rest.

Been doing budgets at different points in that scale and I am actually quite surprised at how tight they are. I am used to large savings and mind boggled at having a fairly tight budget to only save like 200$-300$ a month (if that).

My girlfriend's side of the budget is more fuzzy. She is an elementary school teacher, with a current income of 45k$. The scale leads to about 60k$. She is however in a particular situation as she come from a wealthy family and has a substantial amount in savings. She would therefore not carry mortgage payments or car payments in her budget.

Anyway, I am sure we can live on the budget putting in the effort required but I am scared by the financial constraints. I guess we just have to decide on what we value most. I would love to take the job, but am pretty damn scared of being financially tight.

[nanamom]

Financially tight is in the eyes of the beholder! I know it would be different but keep long term in mind. Enjoying a job for the next 25 or so years vs working at one you hate for the same amount of time. Perhaps if it is a job you enjoy you'll be around longer! Where can you economize. Would a 150 to 200K house do? I just bought a 50K house and while we will have some fixing up to do it has everything we need, 4 bedrooms, 2 baths, lv rm, dn rm, kit, space for library, nice yard and plenty of occupational therapy for DH and I. I've never understood how people live in huge houses, you'd have to work all the time to pay for it so when can you enjoy it?

[tinapbeana]

Originally Posted by thekid

Been doing budgets at different points in that scale and I am actually quite surprised at how tight they are. I am used to large savings and mind boggled at having a fairly tight budget to only save like 200$-300$ a month (if that). ... Anyway, I am sure we can live on the budget putting in the effort required but I am scared by the financial constraints. I guess we just have to decide on what we value most. I would love to take the job, but am pretty damn scared of being financially tight.

well, 200-300 doesn't seem all that tight if that is after saving for short term and long term expenses and retirement. if that's before, then yes perhaps it's a bit tight

with that said, perhaps a little research is in order. check online to see what studies you can find regarding job satisfaction and things like stress levels, health, spending, etc. you might just find that while your income will be lower with this job, you could wind up spending less in the long term on things like stress-related illness, healthcare, stress-relieving vacations, shopping-therapy, etc.

[zetta]

If you plan to have children, another point to consider is that the goverment job may allow you more time to spend with them. At least in the US, people striving to make partner in a private firm often sacrifice large amounts of family time that can never be replaced.

[fairy74]

Well said Zetta and not just people striving to make partner, many associates have ridiculous billable hours as well...

[thekid]

Thanks for the great input guys.

Part of what makes the decision harder is that I no longer work for a large law firm. Last year I took a position with a client of my former firm. They have no-billable (of course), but also decent working hours most of the time, good pay, great vacation package, great job security, good pension that is fully funded by the employer, great insurance and so on.

I feel like a spoiled brat for wanting to leave it and that I would later regret "how good I had it". The problem is that work is similar to what I did back at the firm and I just have no interest for it. It bores me and I basically just spend most of my weeks waiting for the weekend. Deep down I just feel like I’m trying to make no mistakes until I'm finished. That's a bad way to spend the next 25 years of my life and the complete opposite of the driven energetic person I was prior to graduating.

The government job is right in the field I would have naturally gone into had it not been for any other considerations. I may not enjoy it, I have no way to know for sure. My gut tells me it is much more like me. It does have some drawbacks. Pay is the most obvious, but the move to Ottawa is another (girlfriend not too happy about living in a dull bureaucratic town and would lose her seniority –put not pay- at her job). The position also entails shift work and long days at times (it is in relation to foreign affairs and national security matters). My mother and family fully support me, but my inlaws (albeit they remain polite) are more of the opinion that you do not move for half the pay and less benefits (and they have a point).

Basically, and I'm a bit of a risk intolerant person, would I know that the new job would give me much more work satisfaction, I would take it. My insatisfaction with work over the last few years has been a major drag on me. It is the only area of my life that I am not satisfied with and has been really reducing the quality of my days. If I could effectively remedy that, I'd take the pay cut no question. My doubt steams more from the fact I'm wary of taking the pay cut, have to work out relationship issues which may arise because of the move, have money management issues to deal with that have never been there before and only slightly improve my work satisfaction. That would kinda suck. Plus I do feel a bit like an unappreciative brat for not realizing that I do have things going well as they are.

I’m sorry if this is turning more into a rant…..it does fell good to rant though.

Cheers.

[PrincessPerky]

Err I have no idea the COL comparison from Canada to Here, but I make WAY less than you minimum you are thinking of and I save over 300 a month...

Anyway, if you want to do it, go into it with eyes wide open, no job is likely to be the dream love, some days you are not going to want to go into work, but it sounds like you will have fewer of those days if you switch. and the fewer 'ugh' days the better.

If you have time to make up your mind I would try to live on less now, and see just where you can cut without pain, where you don't mind, and where you find it worth it for the benefits.

If you don't have time, how likely is it you can go back to the current not so nice job and how likely at the same/better salary..if it would be relativly easy, go for it, easy switch back. If hard, eh bit more to think about.

[DebbieL]

I'm in Victoria, BC, and the average house is going for well over $500K right now. I wish I lived where you do and could even dream of owning a house for half that! I think from reading your posts that you would like to try this new position, and I say go for it. You are still young - it isn't as if you will be messing up your whole life if you decide it was a mistake and have to return to your current type of work. You aren't even 30 yet, plus you are obviously highly employable. It isn't as if you won't be able to find another high paying position if that's what you ultimately decide upon. The fringe benefits of a government job are pretty sweet too. I wish I had one!

[thekid]

Originally Posted by PrincessPerky

Err I have no idea the COL comparison from Canada to Here, but I make WAY less than you minimum you are thinking of and I save over 300 a month...

Anyway, if you want to do it, go into it with eyes wide open, no job is likely to be the dream love, some days you are not going to want to go into work, but it sounds like you will have fewer of those days if you switch. and the fewer 'ugh' days the better.

If you have time to make up your mind I would try to live on less now, and see just where you can cut without pain, where you don't mind, and where you find it worth it for the benefits.

If you don't have time, how likely is it you can go back to the current not so nice job and how likely at the same/better salary..if it would be relativly easy, go for it, easy switch back. If hard, eh bit more to think about.

I do have time (still undergoing some security checks and things of the sort) and have been doing that. Itemized my budget and sticking to it. Not paying mortgage, municipal taxes and many of the long term expenses on it (so for now those are savings). The idea is to get used to the budget. (the 200$-300$ savings is based on the lowest braket in the range, post allocations for long term expenses, prior to retirement savings). I'm doing fine so far living on it. My girlfriend is looking at me funny for calculating groceries to the cent and writing it down, but also fine with it. It does take some adjustments and we haven't come accross a particular event which would make it harder for now.

As for the ease at which I could switch back, it's relative to the time I'm away from practice. I would not count at going back to my current position (albeit that is posible...but the position would most probably already have been filled and there is not much turnover at all at this place), but could find something back inhouse or in a law firm if I'm not away for too long (my take would be a year max). That would not be best case scenario though, as it is a wild card where I would land.

[PrincessPerky]

The only thing I would worry about is the GF looking at you funny...you will have to be in it together if you are looking at a long term marriage and all..she will have to join you if you actually reduce the income totally and semi perminantly....but well, a funny look is mild compared to budget sabatage, so umm what does she think of the whole thing? bit more important than what we think. After all not my income dropping!

Other than that, sounds like you already know what you want, just a bit worried about the final leap...which is understandable.

[cschin4]

Do you really want to be working the same number of hours for half the pay? Why not just look into another job with a comparable income instead? If the gov't jobs provides better bennies and more vacation time, better hours, then it may be worth it and your pay and seniority increase over time. But, don't delude yourself either. You will miss the income you used to have. So, it is a pretty tough choice.

[thekid]

Originally Posted by PrincessPerky

The only thing I would worry about is the GF looking at you funny...you will have to be in it together if you are looking at a long term marriage and all..she will have to join you if you actually reduce the income totally and semi perminantly....but well, a funny look is mild compared to budget sabatage, so umm what does she think of the whole thing? bit more important than what we think. After all not my income dropping!

Other than that, sounds like you already know what you want, just a bit worried about the final leap...which is understandable.

Yeap, worried about her too. She comes from a very frugal family, she has actually been the one to instil some frugal behaviour in me. However, she is also used to total financial security (her parents are completely financially independent, having enough investment income to cover living expenses many times over). They did this by having high income and being absolutely frugal. Pleasure in life is not very high....what carries weight with them is having large sums invested.

She has always felt very financially secure from her family's position and combined with my income and her savings let us to feel, in hindsight, very upper middle class.

I do not have certainty as to how she will react long-term to feeling more financially constrained. Plus, she would have to move to a city she doesn't much like, away from family and friends (albeit just 2 hours drive away) and forfeit the seniority she has gained in her job over the last five years (she would maintain her income).

We love each other very much, but this is a lot to ask of her. We have talked about this ever since we have been together (over five years) as I have always contemplated this change and talked about it. However, now it is real. She knows how I feel, knows I am not happy in what I do and knows my interest for the other line of work. So far, she has been very supportive and encouraging. I do feel, however, that she is quite scared.

If I go through with this, the plan would be for me to get an apartment for 6 months or so and if all goes well, we would look for a house and she would join me.

I do not know the long term effects of this. I may enjoy what I do much more, be more present and our quality of live would significantly increase. It may also bring in issues of dissatisfaction into our relationship.

Should I have to choose between work and her, she would win. I would return and try to come back to this lifestyle prior to letting things get really bad. However, like switching back jobs, I don't think one can easily switch back relationships should things go sour for a significant period.

So, yeah, one more worry.

Isn't the anonymity of the internet great :-)

[vishenda]

wow, we're on the same boat =(..basically salary is the main reason why I stick to this freaking night shift job..I enjoyed my client, and I learned to love our tasks as if its my own company (goal-oriented)...but then i can feel that my heart isnt happy anymore..I know this isnt really that dream job...I have other offers but then still not the "dream job" offers....so since you have an offer, dream job that is, i strongly suggest you take it without expectations..once you're there, sometimes things wont work your way but dont ever regret...your heart may not always be right but atleast you could not blame yourself for not trying at all ^__^

All the best to you my friend

[BCHGRL]

I work for the federal government. It sounds like you would be in a position similar to mine, a GS-12. GS-13s are easy to come by in DC. I hear GS-14s are a dime a dozen too. Housing is expensive, but DC has the highest federal employee wages of anywhere in the country. If you find it difficult to live on your salary, you can move as employment opportunities become available in other parts of the country.

You need to examine what your priorities are. If you want time with your loved ones, a federal career is great. You will have off all federal holidays and my experience is that you don't work more than 40 hours. This is great for folks with kids because you have many of the same holidays off of work when they are out of school. It is just a different climate than the corporate world. You will never be rich, but you have great job security.

Sometimes I get frustrated with being such a small cog in the government wheel, but overall you just can't beat it!

[Cheetahwoman7]

Just a thought, but because you're already planning on getting an apartment for six months before you have your gf join you, could you ask your current employer for a six month leave of absence? Take the government job for those few months to see if you truly would enjoy it more than what you're doing now.

If you love it, keep it and move on with your plans. If you don't, you haven't lost anything because you can go back to your other job at the end of your leave.

[lynclarke]

I guess one of my questions is how much did you put in the bank while you were making the big bucks? If you have a large emergency fund besides the house downpayment of $65,00, then I would say go for it. If $65,000 is your emergency fund, then I would continue to think. Glad you decided not to buy right away. And, I am kind of glad for you that your girlfriend is not going to go at first. You will need some adjustment time to the job, the budget, your status change, meeting new friends, finding new hangouts etc. It would complicate things enormously if she goes with you and she is not happy. You should figure out if you are happy first- or make a niche where you are happy, first, and then invite her into your life. Does she live with you, presently?