Frugality is a tough sell

[Broken Arrow]

Sigh. It's so tough sometimes to try to stay frugal. More precisely, hanging out with friends that are not frugal at all.

As a friend, I do have some influence, but in the end, my friends want to do what they want to do, buy what they want to buy, and get it right here and right now. "What good is life if you don't live a little?" This, despite the fact that their car is in such disrepair that it may not pass the next state inspection or that they are neck deep in debt....

In fact, my real life friends aren't even interested in investing! Something that men typically are interested into... well, more than cutting coupons and budgeting for groceries anyway. I even got flak for saying that some people grow vegetables in their backyard! They think it's overzealous.

Thing is, I DO agree about enjoying your life, but I also believe and have tried to gently impress upon the value of balance and moderation rather than over-spending. I don't want to suffer either, but then, that's EXACTLY why I am so interested in saving. Healthy personal finances affords me peace of mind.

Oh, and while I am rambling, I can not begin to tell you how anxiety-provoking it is to see grown men throw their credit cards around, buying whatever that comes to mind. On top of that, they did not keep any receipts or use any means to keep track of it. I had to bite my tongue repeatedly over that one.

They always jab at me about how anal and "old-lady like" I am, but I don't care! I am completely driven to realize my dream of a debt-free life! Nothing less will do!

[Snoopy2645]

Well I think its nice that you are concerned about your future & being frugal you dont see too many guys who are in fact when I was dating before I met my husband I thought it was turn off when guys were tight with their money now that I have somewhat grown up a tad bit.

If I could do it over I would have went with a more frugal guy not the one who turned me on by flashing all his money around which by the way was his whole weeks CHECK LOL & buying everyone drinks all night, which is the guy I married!!! He still acts like that too EEKS!!!!

So keep up the good work frugal is what everyone should be!!!

[amberfocus]

Broken Arrow, I completely know what you mean!

Originally Posted by Broken Arrow

In fact, my real life friends aren't even interested in investing!

None of my coworkers are saving for retirement. I brought in one of the financial books that I was reading once, and offered it to them, and the response was, "Nope, absolutely not, I don't have time, and I'm not interested!" My mother yelled at me for investing my money, telling me that I'm stupid for gambling with it, and we got into a huge fight about it. I think that may be a common perspective--that investing is risky, and it's better to save one's hard earned money in the bank.

Originally Posted by Broken Arrow

Something that men typically are interested into...

I don't know about the men (the ones I know are more interested in fancy cars and shiny electronics than anything financial), but I'm particularly shocked at the women who know absolutely nothing about their family's finances. It may be okay for now, but what if something happened to their husbands, whether through divorce, injury/incapacitation, or even death? How will they care for themselves? And what if they also have to care for a child?

Originally Posted by Broken Arrow

Thing is, I DO agree about enjoying your life, but I also believe and have tried to gently impress upon the value of balance and moderation rather than over-spending. I don't want to suffer either, but then, that's EXACTLY why I am so interested in saving. Healthy personal finances affords me peace of mind.

I think that is the key difference--frugalistas see money as a *means* to an end, as a *way* of getting what one wants. In contrast, spendthrifts see money purely *as* the end, as what it can buy that makes them happy. So the former are interested in protecting the *means*--the money itself--while the latter are simply interested in procuring the products that money can buy.

I don't know if that made any sense. Oh well, it's kind of late, I guess.

Originally Posted by Broken Arrow

I can not begin to tell you how anxiety-provoking it is to see grown men throw their credit cards around, buying whatever that comes to mind.

After being quite alarmed myself, particularly at the spending antics of my roommate, I've come to the conclusion that there is no point in worrying, nor is there a point in saying "I told you so". It's their own business how they handle their money, unless it does affect you in some way. I'll only get on the cases of the people I really care about.

Originally Posted by Broken Arrow

They always jab at me about how anal and "old-lady like" I am, but I don't care!

I don't get jabbed at, but I do get patted on the head (figuratively) and get called "the little millionaire". They just find it... cute, I guess. In a somewhat condescending and dismissive manner. Which I guess isn't too surprising. *sigh*

~mimi

[tinapbeana]

Originally Posted by Broken Arrow

Sigh. It's so tough sometimes to try to stay frugal. More precisely, hanging out with friends that are not frugal at all... They always jab at me about how anal and "old-lady like" I am, but I don't care! I am completely driven to realize my dream of a debt-free life! Nothing less will do!

*picturing BA dressed up as a crochety old lady* heehehehehehhe!

just remember BA: the best revenge is living well. on a more practical side, perhaps you could 'expand' your circle of friends? believe me, i know this is easier said than done, but i thought i'd toss it out there.

[BCHGRL]

I strongly believe that the best way to influence others is by your behavior, not by words. Stay the course.

I married a cheap one instead of a flashy one. When he was in the military, he took free hand-me-downs clothes from the guys he supervised -LOL! Some of the Perry Ellis & Polo shirts the guys gave him still had tags. He built a whole wardrobe out of those clothes. His frugality is a result of his upbringing though.

[Broken Arrow]

I thought it was turn off when guys were tight with their money

Oh! So... I guess I shouldn't be whipping out my budget if a date ever suggests ice cream right? That's a good point. *jotting that down*

My mother yelled at me for investing my money, telling me that I'm stupid for gambling with it, and we got into a huge fight about it

That made absolutely no sense. No offense to your mother of course.

*picturing BA dressed up as a crochety old lady* heehehehehehhe!

Hey, who're ya calling a lady! *swings his crochety old cane* Kids these days....

When he was in the military, he took free hand-me-downs clothes from the guys he supervised -LOL!

Wow. That's pretty frugal. I wasn't like that when I was younger. Though I wasn't exactly flashy, I was rather spendy. I have since seen the light, and am never looking back.

I strongly believe that the best way to influence others is by your behavior, not by words.

Aye, Captain. Lead by example, stay the course.

[poundwise]

Life needs balance.

Frugality may be part of a way of living but it isn't life. That is, I believe that being frugal is a means to an end, not an end unto itself. At the present time, I am as tight and cheap as they come. But, it is because of my goal of becoming debt free. Once I reach that status, will I loosen up? Absolutely. Will I abandon frugal living? Absolutely not.

Next up, I want to save a substantial down-payment for a house. Then, investing. At the same time, it will be time to experience some things in life I now deny myself. I'd like to buy some nicer clothes. I'd like to travel with my wife. Going out to a nice dinner together would be pleasant. Anything we do would be enjoyed thoroughly, knowing what we had accomplished and that we're living more wisely working towards our present and future goals.

I think some people are afraid of frugality because they think, "I don't want to live my life like that." And, in that, they may be justified. But, what they fail to see is that making frugality a part of their way of life will enable them to live their life more completely and without the stress of debt or living paycheck-to-paycheck. So many people who 'live life' now will have so little enjoyment once their credit cards are full and they are struggling to pay rent or make a house payment.

Balance.

Live frugally day-to-day. Take care of business. Then enjoy life without worry, guilt, or owing for it later.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by amberfocus

None of my coworkers are saving for retirement.

Same here, both on my job and my wife's. We recently found out she was eligibile for the 403b plan. She asked the administrator about it and the woman essentially tried to talk her out of it, "explaining" that the money comes out of your paycheck to go into this plan so it reduces your take-home pay. Duh! Isn't that the point? We signed her up quick as we could and immediately started putting in the max amount allowed.

As for my job, my partner is still repaying student loans, even though he graduated 4 years before me and I repaid mine about 3 years ago. However, this same person is driving the 4th leased car he's owned in the 6-1/2 years I've worked with him. I'm still on the same car I had back then. He gets shipments from Amazon and other online retailers on a regular basis: DVDs, CDs, gadgets, etc. I hardly ever buy anything. He doesn't cook and eats almost every meal out. I brownbag my lunch and we cook most meals at home.

Needless to say, we have no retirement plan at work. We've talked about it, but I think the problem is he sees no need for it because he's got no money to put into it. Neither does anyone else I work with. I'd probably be the only person contributing anything.

My wife has frequently had to watch what she said at work because we are doing fine, living below our means and saving for the future. At the same time, all of her coworkers are struggling to get by and constantly talking about their money troubles. My wife has to hold her tongue and not say, "Well maybe if you didn't do _______, you'd have some money left at the end of the month."

Bottom line, BA, is you have to live your like and let them live theirs. It is hard to watch when you know how easy it is to correct, but such is life.

[Diolla]

I don't equate frugality with not having any fun. There are plenty of ways to have fun that don't cost alot of money, I remember a walk in the park.

I AM debt free (except my mortgage) and am looking forward to having my money work for me. One of my co-workers asked me "How do you do that debt-free thing? My money just comes in and goes out." We had a nice talk, maybe she'll do something about it. I am not sure she wants to make the changes necessary to achieve it.

I don't really have alot of friends but I think most of the people I know assume I am poor and that's why I am careful with my money. I let them think what they want. Sometimes people offer to pay for me to go to some function and I have to politely decline because I could pay, I just don't have the time, inclination, desire to go. I suppose as a single mother it could be assumed...

Mostly, I don't worry about it. I will happily talk to anyone who wants to know but not that many do.

[creditcardfree]

It is a tough sale. I think simply living by example and sharing your experiences will rub off on some people. My best friend is quite the spend thrift at times. Had (her words) to take out a home equity loan to pay off credit cards, just so she would have a final payment date to look forward to. She is simply not disciplined enough to pay extra on anything to get it paid off. She has asked my opinion on several differnet financial matters in the last year. She doesn't always follow the advice, but at least she seeking another point a view.

Stay the course. I can't imagine you would regret it.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by Diolla

I don't equate frugality with not having any fun. There are plenty of ways to have fun that don't cost alot of money

And even the things that do cost money can usually be had for a lot less than the average consumer is paying.

For example, we go to Disney World every year (used to go twice a year until DD started school). Lots of people hear that and think, "Must be nice to have that kind of money." They are shocked when I tell them how little we spend for our annual trips. Many of them spend more for a week at the shore than we spend for a week in Disney World.

To me, frugality means prioritizing your spending so that you can afford things that are important to you, while also being value conscious and working to get a good deal when you do spend your money.

[MonkeyMama]

I totally feel you. We live in a society where frugality is not equated with fun.
There are wise words in this thread.

I have friends (many if not most) who think driving a brand new car and taking their kids ot the amusement park every weekend is what is important. Obviously they don't have a penny in the bank. Considering my kids are 3 & 1 I don't really see the point in taking them to disneylnad 5 times a year and to the wiggles concert and sesame street on ice - like they care - LOL. But when I say no to these things because I Can't afford them people always act pretty snotty - like at least they are enjoying life. Um, who said I Wasn't enjoying life??? LOL.

I find myself more and more these days saying, oh, I choose not to spend my money on these things, rather just "I can't afford it." In the end we all make choices on what we value and what is important. To me financial comfort down the road is up top on my list, and taking my 1-year-old to a concert he won't remember is about as far on the bottom of the list as you can get. "I can't afford it" doesn't encompass that. "I choose not to spend my money in that matter" is a more correct statement. I Was just visiting with a friend who told me she didn't have a penny in the bank but she went to Disneyland 5 times this year and blahblahblah. In my head I am thinking OMG!!!!!!

The weirdest thing is the fruits of our frugality have paid off greatly even at our young age of 29. I know plenty of people I meet online who hear all the things I Refuse to spend my money on and they really must assume I am dirt broke. BUT I meet people in person, they see my house and hear my husband doesn't work and they automatically assume "rich." I have found out more and more lately that these same people make twice as much money as we do but they can't pull together the money for a house. They are jealous of our house and some of our toys BUT at the same time they chide me because we drive old cars, don't do fancy vacations, go out all of the time, or because I have used the same purse or pair of jeans for a year. ?????? They of course assume that I Am rich and CHEAP and don't get the point that I Am not rich at all - just frugal and living well. I have plenty of what I value, and there are many material things that I don't value.

The most ironic thing is we have these discussions all the time where they are sure that they are leading a happier and more fun life than my miserly ways. Honestly, they worry about money and have no financial security, hate their jobs, etc., etc. On the flip side I hardly have a care in the world. I love my job, I have a good financial start, and I enjoy hanging out at the park or playing with my kids at home. So they get expensive thrills a few times a week, at the end of the day who is truly more happy????

[PRICEPLUS]

Me....I want to be a "deadbeat" as far as credit card issuers are concerned. I want to pay cash. I don't want to buy it unless I can pay for it. I want to live well but not extravagantly!

As for my friends I don't care how they spend because it will not affect me in my spending habits. So many people I know just throw things on the cards. Me...NO WAY!!!!!

Frugality is the greatest! CCs are BAD!!!!!( Excuse me all you convenience users out there!)

[Ima saver]

I just went to a party last night that cost over $5000. I think i had the most fun of any person there. But would, I blow $5000 for a party, no way. I don't have any frugal friends, that is why I enjoy talking to you all. I have tried giving advice to some of my close friends, but they seem to think I am crazy,
They don't have a dime saved for retirement, but they think their plan is much better than mine, and I don't know why! It is very frustrating!(By the way, I won first prize at the party last night)

[k-man]

I find that many people equate savers with folks who have no fun. Afterall, you can't possibly have any fun if you live beneath your means and save money right?

Wrong.

Don't get me wrong, me and the wife make a very nice living now, but that wasn't always the case. We still lived beneath our means and we've always traveled lots and had a lot of fun. As our income has gone up, sure, we're able to travel a bit more, but we still look for bargains. The biggest change we see in our increased income over the years is our ability to save more money.

We each earn a six figure salary, and we just don't know many people in our income bracket who live like we do. We have older cars that we paid cash for and we'll drive them until they die. Every single person we know making the kind of money we make drives a luxury vehicle. We have a 16 year old house that we paid cash for.....all of our friends in our income bracket live in newer, fancier neighborhoods. When we travel, we're fine staying in first class vs. deluxe (which is how all of our high-earning friends travel). I mow the lawn, and my wife cleans our home. All of our friends in our income bracket have help for those chores. This is easily $5,000 a year and yet it only takes each of us about 2 hours once a week to do our job. We eat most meals in and brown bag it for lunch (which not only saves money...it also keeps us healthy!!) My co-workers eat out more than they eat in.....by far! And that's just the tip of the ice berg.

I know for a fact that most of our friends and my co-workers aren't saving nearly as much as they should towards retirement. So, this isn't just a problem for folks making the medican income. In fact, I think that people in the higher brackets will be far more disappointed in their "golden years" because they'll suffer a much greater decline in lifestyle than those who earn less. These people simply live up to their salary....end of story.

Most go at it all wrong. They put whatever is "left over" after all of the spending is done instead of starting with savings and spending what is left after that. But the spending seemingly never ends, and so there just isn't a lot left over. That's the biggest single factor in why people fail to save enough for retirement.....not setting goals. I would venture a guess that most are a paycheck or two away from having to dip into their under-funded 401Ks and IRAs.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by k-man

We each earn a six figure salary, and we just don't know many people in our income bracket who live like we do.

I know for a fact that most of our friends and my co-workers aren't saving nearly as much as they should towards retirement. So, this isn't just a problem for folks making the median income. In fact, I think that people in the higher brackets will be far more disappointed in their "golden years" because they'll suffer a much greater decline in lifestyle than those who earn less.

I'm right there with you. In fact, my family and I were featured in an article in a national magazine a few years ago due to our frugal habits and living below our means, because it is so rare among physicians.

Lots of people think all their financial problems would go away if only they earned more. The reality, however, is as income rises, they just increase their spending to match so they are no better off. The secret for most isn't to earn more but to spend less.

[tinapbeana]

it's very simply the difference between working to "make a living" and working to "maintain a lifestyle".

i work to make a living: covering my necessities now and in the future. so many others work to maintain a lifestyle, and a lifestyle is always 'here and now'. i don't see why you would want to sacrifice your ability to make a living later in order to fund a lifestyle now.

[Ima saver]

Steve, how exciting!! Can I ask what magazine??

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by Ima saver

Steve, how exciting!! Can I ask what magazine??

Medical Economics

[Ima saver]

That is great! One of my husband's homes was featured in a magazine and I was so proud. I know you must be too!
Sorry, didn't mean to change the topic. It is very hard to convince people that you can be frugal but still lead a happy exciting life!