Any online gambling fans here? Thoughts on new law

[disneysteve]

The governement has been trying to shut down internet gambling for years and now it looks like they've finally done it. By passing the Unlawful Gambling Enforcement Act on 9/30, they've made it impossible for Americans to wager at internet casinos. You can no longer use your credit card or online payment services like PayPal, Netpay or Firepay to fund accounts. In fact, many online casinos have closed out accounts from anyone with a US address.

And all of this because the government doesn't want to lose tax revenue from offshore casinos. Personally, I don't think it is fair at all for the governement to tell me where I can and can't spend my money.

Now if they come up with a way for casino companies to operate online casinos within the bounds of the law, that would be great. I'd go to harrahs.com or whatever site existed and let me wager legally. But until those sites exist, I don't think they should have shut down the only ones that did exist.

This legislation is going to cripple many foreign companies that depended on American customers. I'm also curious how this will affect the big tournaments, like the World Series of Poker. Many players qualify at online casinos. If they can't play online, they won't have a chance to play in the actual event.

[PRICEPLUS]

I don't gamble so it does not affect me. I do like to fish and their is word that the FEDS want to license salt water fishing. Yup, another way to get into your pocket!

[pearlieq]

I am concerned about the effect on the WSOP. What's really driven the large fields (and resulting payouts) in the last few years has been the ability of people to play online.

People can still play for free on several sites, but the lack of satillites/qualifiers may hurt the tournament. People who really want to play will either have to play in casino satillites (with much higher buy-ins) or actually pay the full entry fee for the WSOP.

I would be sad to see the field thinned and the grand prize go back to $750,000 instead of $12 million. On the other hand, it may bring back a bit more of the pure spirit of the game and keep the playing field a bit more professional, which might not be such a bad thing!

I'll be interested to see what shakes out.

[scfr]

All right ..... I'm gonna go ahead and stick my neck out and ask why anyone on a forum dedicated to saving money would gamble? Statistically speaking, aren't the only ones making money the casinos?

[PRICEPLUS]

As a form of entertainment, and if you budget for it, a little gambling is perfectly fine. I buy a lottery ticket now and again and I guess my first post in this thread is a little off. Playing the lottery is gambling. I play a dollar now and again as a lark. Just recently I hit for 1000 dollars. The idea is not to make it a habit or look to make money doing it.

[pearlieq]

Originally Posted by scfr

Statistically speaking, aren't the only ones making money the casinos?

Not exactly the case for poker. Poker players compete against each other, not the casino.

The casino does take an administrative fee for tournaments or a percentage of the pot for most regular games, but the vast majority of the money is available to be distributed between the players.

Plus, as PRICEPLUS said, it's a form of entertainment. When you go see a movie, isn't the only person making money the movie theater? You still go, because you enjoy the experience and believe the price you paid is fair for the entertainment you received.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by PRICEPLUS

As a form of entertainment, and if you budget for it, a little gambling is perfectly fine.

Exactly. I consider money I sit down at the table with part of my entertainment budget. Would you see a problem with someone here asking about going to dinner and a Broadway show? Probably not. But that experience for 2 people could easily cost $300 or more. If I take that same $300 to the blackjack table, I could play for a couple of hours and possibly walk away with more than I sat down with.

Two weeks ago, I sat down with $300 and walked away with $635. That certainly never happened when I went to see a show.

The reason for starting the thread was the recent change in the law that makes it impossible to enjoy this form of entertainment from the comfort of your home. Not a big problem if you happen to live near a casino, but for the millions of people who don't, this type of entertainment is no longer available because the government can't figure out how to get their cut of your money.

[cicy33]

I agree, the government is trying to become big daddy! I thought our country was founded on the concept of less taxes. yet, they try as hard as they can to get their hands on everything. perhaps if they taxed the people a certain amount for the moneys that Americans play they would be happy! I actually do play games on a site that requires money. it is not poker but regular games and I am so beyond p*@#&sed that they stopped it. I love video games and I love competing against others. it was a minor harmless fun that sometimes I made a little off of. we do have a river boat within about an hour of me and I have gone there maybe 2 times in the past 2 years. I never leave with money. and at least on the online game it sure lasts a lot longer! I don't like being told how I can spend my money. it is mine. also to note they have been trying to shut down our local Harrahs here for years. haven't succeeded yet.

[scfr]

Okay, point taken about the entertainment value, if you really enjoy it and can walk away from it once you've spent what you budgeted. I've only known one person who was really in to gambling, and for him it was all about trying to make money and of course he lost big time and dug a big ol' hole for himself trying to make back what he had lost. So I had never thought of gambling as a form of entertainment; I incorrectly assumed all gamblers thought of gambling as a way to make money, which I do still think is a huge mistake.

[cicy33]

gambling is a dangerous thing and even us that dabble in it know that. but the bottom line is there are so many forms of gambling, even people that wouldn't dream of putting money in a poker machine, have no issue spending hundreds at walmart or wherever you shop and yet having nothing to really show for it! or as mentioned spend tons of money on expensive dinners or movies, that is one that drives me crazy! Why in the world would you rent a movie??? If I really want to see it, I am going to want to see it more than once. so I might as well buy it! we tried renting years and years ago. we always forgot to return it on time and by that time you might as well as have bought it. same thing with the movie theatre, wait a few weeks it will be on dvd. buy it for half the cost of going to the movies! so, basically, everyone has their idea on what is silly to spend money on. as long as you control how you spend your money it is the same either way!

[greedy4chips]

I own a gambling site that promotes online pokersites mainly. The new law does kill the use of credit cards to fund your gambling. What it does not do is ban gambling on the internet. You can still use Neteller to fund your online poker account.

My opinion is that the credit card companies are seeing players rack up large debts on CCs and then filing bankrupcy. I do not know of anyone personally that has done this, but have heard of stories of players doing this.

That is how you know you are addicted to gambling, when you will sacrifice your financial future for the possible big payoff.

[cicy33]

what is this neteller?

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by greedy4chips

You can still use Neteller to fund your online poker account.

I was hoping you'd post. Do you think Neteller will continue to allow US transactions? Firepay has stopped as have some others. And several online casino sites have closed out accounts held by users with US addresses. So even if I could fund with Neteller, I wouldn't be able to establish an account at many of the sites. I don't doubt that some places will ignore the law, but I think the fear is that the ones that do that may not be the most trustworthy of companies to do business with.

[tinapbeana]

my family enjoys 'recreational poker', and it is paid for out our own personal allowances. our saying is "if you're playing with your lunch money, you shouldn't be playing". it is pure entertainment and the $ amt should be assumed to be gone the moment you walk in. it is, as we say, "the price of playing poker". that $10 or whatever is your fee for about 4 hrs of fun and good times with friends and/or family. if you leave with more than 0, you're ahead of the game.

as for the online gambling legislation, my dad has 'heard' W is trying to not have any US money funneled to overseas companies b/c we just don't know who is funding terrorists now-adays. this is funny to me, knowing the frequency with which Saudi royalty visits the Bush compound...

[greedy4chips]

Neteller is an online payment service. You fund the account from any source CC, checking account, etc. You can then pay for purchases from merchants or transfer money to individuals (there is a fee 1.9% though).

This is how come gamblers will be able to continue to fund their account. I routinely have players ask me to deposit money into their acct at some poker site (after they send me the money + a transaction fee that they feel is worth my time). Now here is the work around if you are a US player. Find a foreign player to that you can trust and offer them a transaction fee to do the same for you. Yes they can run off with your money, but if you pay them a decent amount for their effort they will not take your money and run. It is like those payday loan services that you see popping up everywhere.

Eventually Neteller may stop allowing transactions to poker sites, but eventually another transfer site will open and take its place. There is too much money to be made for it to not happen.

Disneysteve,
I personally pulled all my money out of all my poker accounts this summer...I had around 150 accts and money in 20 or more of them. I rarely played real money, but some of them paid my earnings to my accts hoping that I would play real money I bet. I would recommend only keeping whatever amount you can afford to lose just in case they close your acct and not send you the money for some reason. I have not heard of this yet, but anything is possible.

Neteller does have a referral program that I did not know existed. They pay the referrer 20% of their friend's first deposit up to $20, and 10% bonus to the friend up to 10% of their first deposit. EX deposit $100 or more, I get $20, you get $10 added. Not a bad interest rate for starters. You must be sent an email from the referrer to get referred.

I like Neteller and use it only because of the gambling sites, but many other sites use it. I do not believe that any funds held there are FDIC insured since it is not a bank and most likely outside of US jurisdiction.

I can refer you but perhaps if anyone is interested they should ask Jeffrey to start a referral system similar to ING and Emigrant Bank. It could be a simple $30 return on a $100 deposit. I don't think there is a 1099 sent to the IRS on any referral earnings from them. There is also no interest earned on money held in their accts, I am sure this is how they make a good portion of their money along with transfer fees.

[sakigt]

While I see the government's point, I dont think shutting down all the sites is a good thing. I 2nd the opinion that a legal option should be extablished.

With that being said, my best friend is estatic b/c her husband has suddenly found himself with all kinds of free time now that he cant play internet poker anymore.

[PrincessPerky]

I cannot see the governments point, laws to stop gambling will only effect small time dabblers, hardcore gammers will get around it, and small companies willing to take the backwards loophole bets will profit.

Unfortunatly so will blackmarket/mafia gambing.

Personally I see this as another form of prohibition, where the only people benifiting are crime bosses.

Laws should be for general protection, reminders to good folk (red lights mean stop) not restrictions for mentally ill, that effect the rest of us.......IMO a gambling addiction is that an addiction, banning my husband and I from goofing off will not help the addict, but it will help the future addicts supplier as the price for his fix goes up......

[PrincessPerky]

silly video bout it..haven't checked all info though

http://www.pokergazette.com/ustraffic.html

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by PrincessPerky

I cannot see the governments point, laws to stop gambling

Laws should be for general protection

I don't think this law has anything to do with protecting anybody and I don't think they are making any effort to stop gambling. I think this is strictly a financial issue. The government wants you to gamble only in a governement-sanctioned setting: casino, lottery, racetrack, etc. That way they control the situation and, most importantly, collect tax revenue. The problem with internet gambling is that the government couldn't get their cut of the action. And I'm guessing that representatives of the American casino industry were complaining that they were losing business to the internet sites.

[PrincessPerky]

Like I said 'should be'..didn't say it was....