I don't believe in allowances

[Broken Arrow]

ATATAT's blog entry got me thinking. Now, before I continue, I want to qualify that I'm not trying to single anyone out or cause an uproar. I also acknowledge that I'm not exactly an expert on parenting or anything. Far from it.

That said, I believe in imparting values that will most accurately help them with the real life challenges they will be facing when they grow up. But because of that, I don't believe children should get allowances. They should get contract wages.

Let's face it. Most of us work for a living. (Yes, this includes SAHMs. Work doesn't always have to involve a paycheck.) Even for those who don't, I don't know anyone who has suffered from having a work ethic. However, I can name a few individuals who has suffered because they never had one.

And that's what bothers me the most about simply giving children an allowance: It does not enforce the value of having a good work ethic.

If my kids want something, they have to work for it. Toys? No problem! All they have to do is mow the lawn, take out the trash, do the laundry, and/or wash the dishes. There's plenty of work to be had.

Now, I know some people may say that this approach neglects saving somehow, but I don't think it does. If they want something that costs $20, and chores only pay $1 per chore, they will still have to learn to wait and save up for it.

Nor does this approach neglect the value of managing money. Quite the contrary, I believe that hard-earned money gives them a better sense of the importance of money-- and thus, the responsible management of it-- rather than just giving them money.

You know what I fear the most about the practice of giving children an allowance? Entitlement. "I am entitled to have this or that because you're suppose to give me money for it." It may not come out exactly in those words, but I've seen it before: Children who are used to a certain financial lifestyle revolving around the use of allowances. They become spoiled because they take that money for granted as everyday life.

Then they falter as young adults and become bitter because a) they don't have money they used to have to feed their latte and music habit and b) they're not used to working for it! And yes, then they blame YOU for being poor parents!

I know it's hard to believe, but this is exactly what some of my "friends" used to complain about when we were younger. My parents made me work for my money, and I'm glad they did.

[Ima saver]

I agree with you broken arrow!

[LuxLiving]

Brilliant minds think alike! My folks made us work for the family as a matter of course. Additional jobs could be arranged if we wanted spending money to save up for something - but there were no allowances!

[Ima saver]

I had to go to work and pay for my school things, clothes, shoes, books, movies, etc. (I was 12 and always worked weekends, summers and holidays)

[LuxLiving]

I started working at age 12 too!

[MonkeyMama]

I have a question - what do you think of taking out taxes?? Just curious because we were watching that Wifeswap show where the family paid the kids and took out taxes and some staright to savings. I thought that was a great idea but my hubby was APALLED! LOL. As most people I know.

Honestly, I wish my parents had done the same. IT is a shock to get out in the working world, get a wage, just to find out x is going to taxes!!!

I was just curious if anyone on this forum would agree with my thinking.

As far as allowances, I think I had one, but it was so tiny. I don't remember using it to buy much. my parents used it as a tool to teach me savings - I think it all went to savings for big purchases, and then I worked for anything beyond that. BEfore age 16 jobs for them, babysitting, etc. and after age 16 I got paying jobs and was on my own pretty much. I don't think I got an allowance after age 16. Anyway, I think if done certain ways they can work. It is all in the nuances I guess. Though thinking back on my allowance structure it was more like what you describe.

I have also been thinking about allowances lately as I am eager to start teaching my kids about money. THey are too young (3 & 1), but thinking about it for when the time is right...

Interesting thoughts.

[Broken Arrow]

Taking out taxes? That's a new one to me.

When my kids buy something, they have to have enough to cover taxes as well, or they can't have it. So, even if they don't understand the how or why, they understand the concept of taxes.

Beyond that, I suppose it's personal preference to as to how that is handled? My primary concern is imparting the value of work and money.

[puppypal]

I agree 100% My son has only gotten one thing, sort of, as a freebie when it comes to $
We do give him 5.00 for every A .....he makes on his report card.
(I know there are a huge amount of this side and that side on the subject)
But you have to understand he has to pay me 5.00 for every C
So it doesn't amount to much considering there seems to be one subject he tends to make a lower grade in.
He washes cars, mows the lawn, for extra money. He kept score at the softball field last spring and got paid for that.
He has a checking account which mine and his name is on. We did this years ago because like his momma he is a true saver and I didn't want that kind of cash laying around and I wanted him to have the availability to use it! He is 15 years old.
He does have chores that he does and has to do for no money...I call them right to a room ownership chores. He gets his own room with a bed, and all his needs filled within it.
We do, birthdays and Christmas and that is it. Needs as far as school clothes, shoes, and supplies is my duty. Now if he wanted a 70.00 pair of blue jeans when a 20.00 would work, that he must buy himself!
We opened him a checking acoount when he was 12 years old and he has over 1100.00 in it. He made a huge chunk when he was keeping score at the ball park. I felt a bit sorry for him but never let it show....He was practicing football after school and then off to the ball park til 10:00 pm or so to keep score and then he did his homework. It was tough on him but life is tough...

[vsjhoc]

I too was forced into child labor at any early age.

A colleague told me yesterday that she didn't think her son in college should have to work because he should focus on his studies. I didn't tell her what I thought: if he's going to make it in the real world, he'd better learn how to manage his time and handle competing priorities! It's no big deal to work part time. I always did! There are plenty of people who work full time AND go to school full time, and I really admire them! (Besides, she probably has no idea that he's partying half the time!)

[MonkeyMama]

Yeah - the way this family did it is they took out so much for taxes, and put it into the family fund to do family things. Like towards trip to the amusment park, etc.

IT was just something I never heard of before, sounded good to me, and surprises me the looks of disgust I get when I bring it up - even my hubby.

Then again I Am a tax accountant so I Am very aware of how taxes get in the way of the bottom line. & amazes me how little people really understand about the taxes coming out of their own check every pay day.

[MonkeyMama]

All I have to say is when I Was young my parents really pissed me off, but they really did teach me the value of work and money. I am SO grateful to them to this day.

I remember being pissed when I had to buy my first car and my friends were rained new cars. Working when my friends had free rides, etc., etc. I seemed to be the only one working in high school and college, etc.

As an adult looking around I Wish more people would do the same with their kids. It is a lesson easier learned young.

[pearlieq]

I agree with several points, but I look at allowance as a way for a child to manage their own expenses.

For example, if I've decided to let my kid buy their school lunch one day a week, or need to buy a gift for one of their friend's birthday parties once a month, and other expenses I would other incur on their behaf (not things that are optional, but normal expenses that I incur on their behalf), I would rather give the child that money under the name of "allowance" so they can have practice budgeting, managing, and paying their own expenses. When they're small the money may be given out weekly, and would later move on to monthly, quarterly, and even annual payments as they approach adulthood.

For other money (entertainment, toys, etc.) I would certainly expect the child to earn extra money by doing special jobs. However, there are also jobs they would simply have because they are members of the family and are expected to contribute to the household. I don't want to wind up with a kid who asks "how much?" every time I ask them to do something around the house.

At least those are my current thoughts on the idea. I may look back in 10 years and snicker at how naive and misguided I was.

[Ima saver]

I learned a lot about saving money when i was a kid by having to work for it. My mother did not have any money to give me an allowance cause she worked for about $20 a week. I remember taxes very well. I made $3 a day and they took out 9 cents for taxes.

[Gruntina]

I started working when I was 12. I did so to pay for my school clothes, anything extra I wanted and mainly to take some burden off of my mom since we did not have any money. But I believe because I started young when need to buy clothes and stuff, it lead me to spend my money on shopping items and materialistic things rather than saving it. During this time, I never thought about savings or future or anything like that because that was not the goal of working.

Dumb dumb dumb.... I can not change the past but I do hope to implement suggestions to my future children and friends the importance of savings and financial security more than just working hard for the money.

[boefixepa]

There are many points I agree on here and it's nice to know that I am not the only one who agree with this. For me there is an 'expected' amount of work a child should do to be a memeber of the household. The need to pick up after themselves and clean their own rooms and such. These duties will natrually increase as the child grows. These things are just about being part of a family. Above and beyond that, the child needs to do extra, maybe things mom or dad would normally do, for which they earn their allowance. I am sure there will be some trial and error when I actaully become a parent, but I rarely if ever remember receiving an allowance and worked starting as 12 baby sitting and paper route at 14 until I was leagally able to work at the grocery store. After I was working at the grocery store the only help my parents gave me, financially, was a roof over my head and the occasional meal when I was home. If I wanted it, I had to come up with the money. Clothes, car, car insurance (had to pay the difference adding me to the policy made) etc. There where times I really felt like I was getting the short end of the deal. Especially watching so many of my friends who were given so much more, and I honestly think my parents would have given me more if they had it to give, they didn't. In the end I turned out with a really great work ethic and a do-it-myself additude. My brothers...well they ended up with an entitlement attitude....can't figure out how sometimes, but they did. One thing I did learn looking back is that life is not fair. Comparing your position in life to someone you think is better off than you does nothing to improve your situation. I learned if you work hard and you don't get want you want...work harder. So far I've never not gotten what I want. So it's worked so far...where there's a will there's a way!

I've seen far too many kids get what I fell is a free ride. Even after they are gone and married they still come to mom and dad for hand outs and assistence. Yes life is hard, yes life is expensive, and I can see how it can be hard for parents sometimes. However, I don't think a parent is doing any child a favor by not allowing them to be indepent of them. That's a parents job! Sometimes it means letting them learn the hard way that you will not take the consequences of their actions away from them by bailing them out again, and again. Even if that means from jail!

Okay, I've ranted enough.

[Diolla]

I don't give my son an allowance.

I give him the money I have budgeted for school expenses and it is up to him to distribute it (pay his lunches, bus, school supplies) I never ask for it back so if he saves some by walking home or not having pizza for lunch he gets to keep it. I also don't supplement it so if he spends more (like for an extra slice of pizza or an extra fancy backpack) he has to come up with that from his funds.

He has chores he has to do around the house because everyone has to work to keep things running smoothly. He has to take out the trash and take care of his dog, sort and take out the recycleables. He also makes dinner once a week.

If he does extra like mow the grass, wash the car etc...I pay him. He also collects cans, babysits and does odd jobs. I also pay him for 'A's. He has to work hard to get an A and gets paid accordingly for working hard for those A's. I don't charge him for C's but anything under a C the punishment is alot worse than any money I could charge him.

He sets aside 10% of everything he earns for savings, gives 10% to the church and pays 1/2 the cost of his math tutor from his money. I am very pleased with him.

[boefixepa]

Diolla! Sounds like you are doing great with him! Good system!

I've also noticed the kid makes a big difference. There are natuaral spenders (everyone in my family but me!) and natural savers. I'm neither. As a kid I tried to save for things, but the money was stolen, or begged off of me, so I learned to get what I needed quickly or hide the money. Though I was often a participant in the hunt for hidden money in my house. When I needed to save for something I was fine, I just had to hide the money. But just saving with nothing in mind never entered my mind as a child.

[LuxLiving]

Originally Posted by boefixepa

There where times I really felt like I was getting the short end of the deal. Especially watching so many of my friends who were given so much more, and I honestly think my parents would have given me more if they had it to give, they didn't. In the end I turned out with a really great work ethic and a do-it-myself additude. My brothers...well they ended up with an entitlement attitude....can't figure out how sometimes, but they did. One thing I did learn looking back is that life is not fair. Comparing your position in life to someone you think is better off than you does nothing to improve your situation. I learned if you work hard and you don't get want you want...work harder. So far I've never not gotten what I want. So it's worked so far...where there's a will there's a way!

Neat article - religious slant on comparisons:
Rooting for the Joneses!
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/165/s...?WT.mc_id=NL54

[Bookie]

*Note to self: Delete Broken Arrow's allowance as a budget line item.*

[vsjhoc]

Originally Posted by Bookie

*Note to self: Delete Broken Arrow's allowance as a budget line item.*

Does this mean Bookie is BA's dad?? Is this like the end of Star Wars???