Oprah - Living on Minimum Wage

[boefixepa]

I'm odd, I've accepted it. Everyone that really know me agree with me, or has had a hand in convincing me.

I take acception to the 'idea' that people can not change their lives.

For example,

Ima, you keep saying how hard it was for you and how you had to work years as a waitress earning near nothing....but Ima....you did it! Look at where you are now. Changes like these are not instant. They are summation of years of choices and lifestyles. It was not easy right? But show me one life that is? The person living it would agrue with you!

You have to constantly fight the uphill battle. It may take years, decades, or a life time, but to say it can't be done...well that's your choice and you have to live with the consequences.

Someone said that wouldn't it be nice if an ordinary person could live comfortably.....

Now that's difficult and unsettleing for me....it rubs to close to the feeling of something I've come to call 'settleing for mediocracy'

If people aren't willing to work and strive to do their best, then it's a pipe dream for them to expect the best out of life. You get what you put in. Each life is also individual, each is happy and satisfied at a different level.

Sorry in advance that I don't have the title and author, but this poem sums it up well for me. I think often about it and it rings true from my life perspective.

The tree that never had to fight
For sun and sky and air and light,
But stood out in the open plain
And always got its share of rain,
Never became a forest king
But lived and died a scrubby thing.

The man who never had to toil
To gain and farm his patch of soil,
Who never had to win his share
Of sun and sky and light and air,
Never became a manly man
But lived and died as he began.

Good timber does not grow with ease,
The stronger wind, the stronger trees,
The further sky, the greater length,
The more the storm, the more the strength.
By sun and cold, by rain and snow,
In trees and men good timbers grow.

Where thickest lies the forest growth
We find the patriarchs of both.
And they hold counsel with the stars
Whose broken branches show the scars
Of many winds and much of strife.
This is the common law of life.

To quote a cheesy movie with a great morle

A man can change his stars

[Ima saver]

I love the poem!!

[lrjohnson]

Originally Posted by boefixepa

Someone said that wouldn't it be nice if an ordinary person could live comfortably.....

Now that's difficult and unsettleing for me....it rubs to close to the feeling of something I've come to call 'settleing for mediocracy'

If people aren't willing to work and strive to do their best, then it's a pipe dream for them to expect the best out of life. You get what you put in. Each life is also individual, each is happy and satisfied at a different level.

I'm the one who said an ordinary person should be able to not be stuck in poverty.

I love the poem, but to clarify, I never said that people should not strive to do their best.

What I am saying is that not everyone is gifted in all areas. Some have book smarts, some have street samrts. There's good looks, musical talent, artistic ability, athletic ability, health, etc. We are born with a certain amount of skills and gifts.

To be born into an abusive home in a poor neighborhood with a bad school system is a set of barriers. Kids who have the right combination of inate gifts may be able to get over the barriers. Kids who have the right surroundings to nuture inate gifts and help them develop new skills will do better.

What I am saying is that a kid with average abilities should be able to make it. Ability and effort are different. You say you get what you put in. Well, if a kid is 5'6" he's not likely gonna be in the NBA, no matter how hard he tries. A kid with an IQ of 100 is not likely going to be teaching physics at Harvard, not matter how many nights she slaves away in front of the books. I believe everyone should do the best they can with the gifts they were born with, and make opportunities for themselves. But when people are born with not-as-many gifts and an inordinate amount of barriers, they can end up with a life that is hard.

I have climbed over quite a fair number of barriers; frankly, I'm lucky to even be alive. I was able to make a better life for myself and I know others can too. I was able to use certain gifts/skills to compensate for other barriers. I just have a lot of compassion for those of us who have fewer skills and more barriers.

[mud]

In california its 6.75. Lets just say that you have to live in the middle of the desert to survive at minimum wage. Notice how most of the poverty peeps have tons of kids....

[boefixepa]

Johnson, okay, now that you explained it better I agree with you. I know that many, too many, of those kinds of situations exist and I wish there was an answer to help them all. Again, one of those social problems with no easy answers. There are organizations out there that are trying to help such kids. I caught a Dr. Phil show where his foundation spotlighted such organizations and donated generously to them. I wish them all the luck in the world in helping those children make a better life for themselves.

What frustrates me to no end, mostly because I see so much of it out there and in my own family, are those who want the 'good life' but aren't willing to work for it. They think that life should just hand it to them and if it doesn't they are the 'victims.'

The 'settleing for mediocracy' thing is when people do just enough to get by. They don't try their hardest or do their best in anything. They are capable of more, but just don't do it. We are all guilty of this on some level, we get into our 'comfort' zone and stay there. Imagine how sad the world would be if everyone did this. There would be no new discoveries, no great artist, muscians, or athletes. Whatever it is in life you love to do, do it with everything you are and that make you great no matter your circumstances.
You will be great because inside, you know you have given your all, and even if the result is not what you would like it to be...you are satisfied and you are full.

[Thrifty Ray]

I feel that SELF CONFIDENCE plays a huge role in ones success/failure.

I have seen folks with degrees work at a dead in job for years, simply because they were too uncomfortable, not lazy, to apply for a new/better job.

And I have seen those with HS diplomas make it into great jobs becasue they had the confidence to sell their talents, to ask for more responsibility and to self teach.

I agree that education, skill, etc are big factors...but if one has all of this and no self confidence, they are less likely to succeed over someone with less but has more confidence and is willing to take risks.

[Ima saver]

i live in an area where it is the norm, not to work very hard. the local people were raised on farms, they grow their own food, chop wood for heat and have no desire for a nice house or car. We have had many workers over the years, none of them have ever worked more than 25 hours a week. They work for beer money and that is all.
There are so many people that think the world owes them a living. They get on the system, have several children and let the tax payers support them. They can do better that way than earning minimum wage.

[PrincessPerky]

I would rather help remove the dangerous obsticles (abuse) than hand over money blanketly to huge groups.

and I would rathe my neighbors grew there own food and forego the option of a nice car than had the nice fcar bought with our tax money!

[Gruntina]

Originally Posted by Thrifty Ray

I feel that SELF CONFIDENCE plays a huge role in ones success/failure.

I have seen folks with degrees work at a dead in job for years, simply because they were too uncomfortable, not lazy, to apply for a new/better job.

And I have seen those with HS diplomas make it into great jobs because they had the confidence to sell their talents, to ask for more responsibility and to self teach.

I agree that education, skill, etc are big factors...but if one has all of this and no self confidence, they are less likely to succeed over someone with less but has more confidence and is willing to take risks.

I have to admit, I am one! I am afraid to leave my current job because the company I work for are very professional and always provide the tools I need to do my best at my job. With my experience being deaf, 95% of the employers that I worked with in the past will not pay for interpreting(American Sign Language) provide Video Relay Sorenson(phone for the deaf) or even give me opportunity to learn new things to work my way up. I work with awesome people and I am afraid to leave here. I have always wanted to buy a home someday and the cheapest home in a bad area around the Bay Area is way too high of a bar for me to reach as far as affordability. But I am afraid to move elsewhere because of jobs. People are people and when they are not educated about deaf people, they tend to think we are helpless and a negative asset to the company.

[lrjohnson]

Originally Posted by PrincessPerky

I would rather help remove the dangerous obsticles (abuse) than hand over money blanketly to huge groups.

I don't think we necessarily disagree. I think long term systemic changes need to happen, and it's less about money than finding the right long term solutions, and spending money that's already being spent differently.

Not directlky on topic but....Being in the welfare business, I will say most of the people are on and off, to get them through a reough time/divorce/job loss etc. It's used as the safety net it was designed to be. It's a much smaller but much more visible group that relies on public assitance for the long term.

[lrjohnson]

Originally Posted by mud

In california its 6.75. Lets just say that you have to live in the middle of the desert to survive at minimum wage. Notice how most of the poverty peeps have tons of kids....

I'm not seeing any sand under my feet......

[megy]

Originally Posted by Roupey03

I think that minimum wage should be based on what state you live in. Seeing that New York is a lot more expensive than Ohio. It makes sense to me.

Some areas have passed ordinances changing the minimum wage in that state or city. The state and cities have the power to do that . . . they just choose not to. I believe that Chicago and DC both have higher minimum wages? And there are quite a few others.

[cicy33]

I am constantly amazed at the rents in other places. I find it more interesting is people figure out a way to pay for it!!!
As far as the one who said people "choose" to make low wages, hmm, lets see, bob offers me a job at $12 per hour, and Mary offers me a job at $8. Gee, which one do I take. Give me a break we do not "choose" to make crappy pay. Some areas just do not pay well. I lived in Nashville Tennessee and was making good money working for a defense lawyer firm. Moved back to this area cuz it is home and my ex-dh wanted to. I didnt' feel that moving was a good reason to get a divorce. So anyways, moved back home and the lawyers here only pay 6.50 - 7.00 per hour. Why should I have to kill myself working for lawyers who are VERY demanding when I can work in a regular office for the same or higher and work with nicer people. I was forced to change my job cuz this area doesn't pay squat for legal secretaries.

[rob62521]

Cicy, I agree. I don't know how folks make some of the rents. I live in theCentral Illinois where overall, the cost of living is usually lower, but still am astounded at what rent it. My mom lives in a decent, but not overally rich neighborhood. Most of the houses are small, like around 1000 square feet. The house behind her has three bedrooms, some yard, and no garage, and goes for $800 a month! I think that's ridiculous because the landlord isn't good about keeping stuff up. The renters put up with it because they like the neighborhood and they have two little boys and they liked the fenced yard. That rent was more than my highest house payment. I guess that would be reasonable in some areas.

[abowers]

I put up with rent because I am 23, my boyfriend is in graduate school for PhD, and I am starting grad school for an Ed.S (beyond a Master's). We do not have the money for a house, and we don't plan on staying in the area when school is done.

[Ima saver]

The rent around here is about $800 a month and I live in a tiny rinky dink town. I guess that is why so many young couples get trailers to live in. Then they want $40,000 for a plain lot to put it on.