Is it OK to do that?

[getforfree]

We live in California. The house we live in is too small for us and we need a bigger one. The house is only little over 900 sq feet with 5 people living in it. So we are saving to get a bigger one. The cheapest house you can buy here would be at least $280 K with 1 or 2 bdr and would need serious improvements. The house prices are very high here.

Yes, I do some serious budjeting and track every penny. Thats why I would rather loose $50 twice a year and get about $50 every months. Its obvious.

And I am not trying to pull anything against anyone, I just look for ways to get as much as I can. And I do it legally. If they ask me to report my income, I don't hide anything from them.

We have enoug food, and I don't spend much on it. We have meat every day, grow vegetables (have green onion and garlic all year round), but buy some tomatoes and cucumbers during winter. If you cook everything from scratch, never eat out, use all kinds of coupons rebates and other deals, it won't cost much. And we always have variety, and healthy food. My kids have nice clothes (well, I paid about 5-10% of the regular price) and lots of toys (that I have to keep half of it in the shed, and then bring some in and take some out so they would fit in their bedroom). Well, now we spend more on gas than food, so I have to make some cuts or save less.
My dh always jokes that we save more than we make.

Tomkat, do you think we should downsize to even smaller house? Then I would have to use living room instead of bedroom (just kidding). How do you think I should switch my priorities? If you have better idea, that might help.

[tomkat]

Originally Posted by getforfree

We live in California. The house we live in is too small for us and we need a bigger one. The house is only little over 900 sq feet with 5 people living in it. So we are saving to get a bigger one. The cheapest house you can buy here would be at least $280 K with 1 or 2 bdr and would need serious improvements. The house prices are very high here.

Yes, I do some serious budjeting and track every penny. Thats why I would rather loose $50 twice a year and get about $50 every months. Its obvious.

And I am not trying to pull anything against anyone, I just look for ways to get as much as I can. And I do it legally. If they ask me to report my income, I don't hide anything from them.

We have enoug food, and I don't spend much on it. We have meat every day, grow vegetables (have green onion and garlic all year round), but buy some tomatoes and cucumbers during winter. If you cook everything from scratch, never eat out, use all kinds of coupons rebates and other deals, it won't cost much. And we always have variety, and healthy food. My kids have nice clothes (well, I paid about 5-10% of the regular price) and lots of toys (that I have to keep half of it in the shed, and then bring some in and take some out so they would fit in their bedroom). Well, now we spend more on gas than food, so I have to make some cuts or save less.
My dh always jokes that we save more than we make.

Tomkat, do you think we should downsize to even smaller house? Then I would have to use living room instead of bedroom (just kidding). How do you think I should switch my priorities? If you have better idea, that might help.

I stated in my previous post that I understood the high mortgage if you're living some place like California, which you have verified. I also understand how you qualify for WIC, now that I know your income (I think poverty level in this country is $32,000 for a family of 4). That puts a new perspective on all that you've divulged about your situation. So, now I don't know what else to tell you to do, other than move to a city/state where housing and cost of living is cheaper. Here in Alabama, for example, $280,000 will buy your a brand new, all brick, 4 or 5 bedroom, 2 or 3 bath home, with 2400 or 2500 sqft and good sized yard! But that's probably not a feasible solution for you at this time.

Is your mortgage an interest-only mortgage, and you're paying extra to build up equity? If it's not interest only, you could probably divert that extra money to your food bill, since paying extra on the mortgage isn't a crucial thing that has to be done like buying food.

[Ima saver]

At $1500 a month, that is over half their take home pay, just for the mortgage. That is high.

[getforfree]

Paying extra on mortgage is not a critical thing but it will save me money in on the interest in the long run. Its fixed 30 year loan, not the interest only. Plus its not like we are out of food. And I don't really want to move and lose all my friends and other connections.

But thanks for your idea, Tomkat, I will divert some of those extra money to buying gas instead of makin extra payments.

[stngymama]

I would second not paying extra on the mortgage, since you are planning on moving *soon*. Its a waste of precious $. Maybe you could even refi to interest only, to squirrel away more for your next home!
Normally I would argue the ethics of your strategy, but until things change and the government factors in the rapid rise in gas (and thus everything else), you gotta do what you gotta do. WE're getting nailed here in CA on not only property costs, but fuel ($3.29 today) and everything else is much higher than the national average.
I would, however, make sure your employer will not retaliate is some way.

[DivaJen]

I agree with others -

No, it's not ethical to take a day off and not work so as to qualify for government assistance. Choosing not to work so that you can get aid is taking advantage off the system.

Stop sending extra to your mortgage, take your raise and adjust your budget accordingly.

[TBH]

I agree with much of what others have said re: advice for getforfree. Don't overpay mortgage, don't try to fudge income by taking a day off work to qualify, and good luck to you. I am contemplating moving to Cali with only one kid. It must be hard to survive there with 3 kids. Sounds like you are a diligent saver and I'm glad you've been able to get WIC until now. Oh, and congrats on the raise.

But for folks who don't take gov't assistance because of pride: I have to say I strongly disagree with you. We pay the gov't to provide certain services, including aid if we ever need it. I would also take whatever I qualified for (no more, no less).

[lrjohnson]

But for folks who don't take gov't assistance because of pride: I have to say I strongly disagree with you. We pay the gov't to provide certain services, including aid if we ever need it. I would also take whatever I qualified for (no more, no less).

Claire: as an eligibility worker for cash aid, food stamps, and medicaid I made it clear to people that asking for benefits they were entitled to was no cause for shame in the least. I did my best to make sure that clients were comfortable as possible through the whole process, and kept their dignity. What caught me about you said, though, is that you mentioned aid "if we ever need it." What I'm gathering is sentiment here, or is at least mine , is that there may be benefits that we are eligible for but that we do not need. For me, choosing not to apply for benefits to which I was eligible was a choice I made because I had enough for not only my needs but some wants. If I need assitance it is not necessarily my pride that will stop me; it will be the question of whether I have a need I can not meet myself.

[getforfree]

I have no pride. I see that people who have too much of it miss out a lot, eather at not taking something or trying to show off so the others would think they are rich. I have seen people like that.
I guess thats why I am good at selling. I don't care what people think about me that I am annoying and all that. I can talk people into buying the product easy. I scored the most sales per workhour at work and got $15 giftcard to the department store ( will get my ds some shoes).

[stngymama]

You're obviously a tough, hard worker, so whatever you do for now, you should have a fine future. Perhaps, if you do find it too disturbing to follow through on your proposal, you could work out something else with your employer where you get some other benefit which wouldn't disqualify you for WIC right now??
After all, I think WIC only lasts until a child is 5??

[Thrifty Ray]

IMO, structuring your work hours so that you can receive something that you do not qualify for has nothing to do with pride...but has much to do with selfishness.

If you think about it...WIC was created to help folks afford essentials who could not make it otherwise.

In your case, you can make it and you are to be applauded for stretching the dollar as well as you do.....but just up to the point where you are structuring to take something that you do not qualify for.

You have asked for opinions...and in mine, you should be happy with how well you are providing for your family and leave the WIC for the next person who needs/qualifies for the assistance to make it month to month.

[getforfree]

Originally Posted by stngymama

You're obviously a tough, hard worker, so whatever you do for now, you should have a fine future. Perhaps, if you do find it too disturbing to follow through on your proposal, you could work out something else with your employer where you get some other benefit which wouldn't disqualify you for WIC right now??
After all, I think WIC only lasts until a child is 5??

Thats why I chose a giftcard instead of extra 15 bonus added to my paycheck.
My kids are 1yr and3yr old, so its long time to go before they will turn 5. Plus, by that time my youngest won't be in diapers any more, thats for sure. It costs like $25/month even though I usually buy store brand when its on sale.

[TBH]

Originally Posted by lrjohnson

For me, choosing not to apply for benefits to which I was eligible was a choice I made because I had enough for not only my needs but some wants. If I need assitance it is not necessarily my pride that will stop me; it will be the question of whether I have a need I can not meet myself.

Well said, lrjohnson. I think our views are pretty similar. While I wouldn't take public aid if I really didn't need it, I would probably take it if I could just barely squeak by without it. I might take it before you did in similar circumstances, but I think we'd go through similar thought processes in making the decision.

[stngymama]

Originally Posted by getforfree

Thats why I chose a giftcard instead of extra 15 bonus added to my paycheck.
My kids are 1yr and3yr old, so its long time to go before they will turn 5..........

Well done with the gift certificate! People ask for in kind pay all the time because of the ripple effect of marginal increases in salary. You have 4 years (actually in 2 years, it may not be worth the bother): I'd plan a 4 year strategy then! If you continue to do well at your job, you will get more pay raises, which with your proposed strategy will create an even greater issue. Absences are a big no no when it comes to promotions!
I'd try negotiate and come up with an alternative plan with your employer until you would reach that magic cut-off where you're making enough to not worry about WIC, maybe pass on the salary raise for the in kind bonuses for another year and then ask for a bigger pay raise??? Also reexamine your other goals within a 4 year plan; maybe you don't want to move until it's time for both kids to be in school ('course it may take that long to save up ), It'll give you time to check out school districts. AGAIN, advice anyone should think about: refi to interest only if you're going to be in your home for less than 5 years or so. It won't cost you anything up front, you still have the interest write off and you can use that $ better by socking it away in a tax exempt investment vehicle.
It all depends on how flexible your employer is; maybe, just maybe, they'll be shamed into giving you a decent salary?????

[TBH]

I would argue against foregoing the raise, and I would argue againts refinancing to interest only. Seems like you'd be shooting yourself in the foot either way. What if you can't move after all and get stuck with horrible rate hikes on your loan? What if your boss says s/he'll give you a bigger raise next year, but then business is bad next year or you fall out of the limelight a little and the boss says "oh, did I say that?"

Maybe you should tell your boss that the raise, while much appreciated, puts you out of the WIC range, so you're actually losing money. Ask if you you could have another percentage point increase to help you through this transitional time.

I would, if anything, ask for more money, not turn down the raise. And gift cards instead of a raise sound risky to me too. What if the gift cards stop coming? A raise can't be retracted as easily as in-kind payments, or a mere promise of future raises.

[stngymama]

Originally Posted by claire

....Maybe you should tell your boss that the raise, while much appreciated, puts you out of the WIC range, so you're actually losing money. Ask if you you could have another percentage point increase to help you through this transitional time.......

Probably the best single strategy!
The rest I suggest would obviously depend on job stability, your health, risk tolerance, predictability of the future, etc. Each family should decide what works for them.
Ultimately my advice would be simply think "outside the box", think long term (in this case WIC is totally gone in 4 years, the job hopfully won't be), look at all options, and be OK with the plan you and your dh decide upon.

[getforfree]

Thanks for all your suggestions.
I already accepted the raise, I never thought of refusing it.

The giftcard thing is not a raise, its just an appresiation that one person gets every month (whoever scores the best performance). I won it this time, I might not win it next time, it is just one-time thing. I asked my coworker who won it the last time and she chose it to go to her paycheck, if she had to pay tax on it, she said yes, but she was not planning to buy something with those extra few dollars, she will add it to her cc payment, to pay it off faster. That bonus is just to motivate people to work harder.

I took this job because thats what was available for the night time, and I chose the one where I make more per hour. The more I make per hour, the less hours I would have to work to make the same amount of money. I don't plan to keep this job forever. Maybe untill my kids will go to school, I will get a ft job that pays more. When both kids will be in school, I won't need a babysitter, and me and dh can both have ft jobs. Then we'll deffinately won't qualify for anything. I think when I will get enough experience and will be confident that I can sell anything to anybody for the highest price possible, I might open my own business.

It's easier to be either poor or rich, but not in the middle, and untill you are ready to jump from one to the other, don't get in the middle, where you have to pay for everything yourself, and don't have enough money to pay it.

I don't want to switch fo interest-only payment on the house. Refinancing woul cost money, not out of pocket right away, but will be added to my loan, so it still costs money. Thats same like havin cc debt and paying minimum payment only every month. Plus interest-only plan is usually with flexible rate, and rates are going up now. My mortgage is about $190,000 that I have to pay off, plus pay lots of interest on it.

[stngymama]

Originally Posted by getforfree

...It's easier to be either poor or rich, but not in the middle, and untill you are ready to jump from one to the other, don't get in the middle, where you have to pay for everything yourself, and don't have enough money to pay it........

Well scrap most my suggestions ! You've obviously covered all those bases!
What you say above is soooo true! I remember many similar conundrums when my kids were younger, including not qualifying for state supported childcare, yet by the time I paid for childcare, I had less take home than those who had qualified!
Whatever happened to the idea of support services on a sliding scale, so that those on the way up financially still have some support?

Congratulations on your raise!

[PrincessPerky]

Just an odd thought..what if you sold some of those toys you are storing, might cover some food (or more)

Nother odd thought, try pting your kid, then you can be done with the diapers..

[getforfree]

I don't realy want to sell any toys, because we need them all. When my kids will get tired of the ones that are in the house, I will take those to the shed, and bring the ones from there. And I always switch it around, (like once a moth or so). That way they always have new toys and I don't have to buy the new ones. The only exceptions, I just bought a few books for my 3yr old, for like 10c each, they normally would cost at least $2, or some maybe $1 if they would be in the dollar store; and a ball so we could play in the backyard. But I would go thru the toys and maybe sell some that they don't really like. Maybe I would make like $10 or so. I thought about selling their baby stuff, but why knows I might have more kids, I am still young.

I am trying pottytraing my dd. She just turned 1. She knows where the bathroom is and what people are suppose to do in there, but whenever she decides to go there, most of the times is too late. And whenever I put her there, she doesn't want to do it that time, and she doesn't want to sit there more than 5 min. Whenever we are outside, she runs without diaper, and if she would wet her pants, I just change the pants. Its much cheaper to wash the pants than change a diaper.

We tried clothes diapers before, didin't work for us. They would leak, and I would have to change her like every 30-40 min, and if she would wet it while taking nap, she would wake up right away. So all I was doing is changing her, then we would run out of clothes diapers and use disposable. When I was using clothes diapers, I not only had to do my laundry every day, but had twice more laundry to do then normally. That was a pain.

Now, whenever I ask her if she wants to go potty, she says yes, and when I take her there, she doesn't do it, sits there a couple minutes, and when we go back to play, a few minutes later she would wet her pants. I think she is not old enough to understand when is the time to go.