May 1 - Immigrant boycott in major cities

[sweeps]

"There will be 2 to 3 million people hitting the streets in Los Angeles alone. We're going to close down Los Angeles, Chicago, New York, Tucson, Phoenix, Fresno," said Jorge Rodriguez, a union official who helped organize earlier rallies credited with rattling Congress as it weighs the issue.

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[PRICEPLUS]

Well this union official can tell me why union guys have been getting bumped off construction sites by scabs from another country.

[Thrifty Ray]

It will be interesting to see how this issue plays out.

[boefixepa]

Yeah it will, but I don't think america could really survive without them. I don't think there is an easy answer. I'm interested to see how it will work out.

[Fern]

At the risk of rubbing someone the wrong way, here's my take on it:

I don't begrudge an immigrant a job, or the opportunity to live in this country. After all, i'm the product of immigrants mysefl if you go back a few generations. But if they come here, they should be willing to learn the language and assimilate into the culture. I'm not saying give up your heritage, just show respect for the country you've worked so hard to get to. I'm talking about things like the hispanic marketing gurus advising the demonstrators to wave the American flags and put away the Mexican ones, which they were doing up til that point, becus they (righly) knew it would irk Americans.

The language thing really bothers me. It's fine to speak your native language at home, but elsewhere, it should be English. Our country is, after all, called the UNITED States of America.

OK, i'm sure i'm gonna catch it now.

Also, given the very real security concern re: terrorists coming in from our southern border, I don't think we can ignore the illegal status of many who come here.

[boefixepa]

What bugs me are the extremes on both sides. To say 'deport them all' is just plain stupid. All it shows is a persons lack of knowledge of just how many workers are out there doing the 'grunt' work. To give them all a free pass is just not fair in any sense of the word.


The language thing I think is pretty funny. I know LOTS of people that feel the same way as Fern. The US has to be one of the few advanced nations if not the only (at least the only one I know of, but I'll give us the benifit of the doubt that there may be others) when knowing at least two languages FLUENTLY is NOT a requirement for basic graduation. I've been to many european countries and it is not uncommon for a regularly educated (high school) student to speak as least three languages. Most speak the language of their country, french, and english. food for thought.

Also having been dropped in a few forgien countries I was very grateful to those who were patient with me as I learned their language. But yes, I was diligently trying to learn their language. (I speak English, spanish, portuegse, and the CREOLE of Cape Verde Africa fluently. Beacuse of that I can read and understand most of Italian and can pick out alot of things in French, though it sound weird and I can't understand it much spoken).

Now working with many immigrants in my field gues what....most are lucky to have a basic grade school education. Most can't read their own language. Just the idea of trying to learn another language with that background of learning would be a great challenge. Does that mean they shouldn't...of course not...just understand what they are up against.

The best thing I ever did was to go live, as they live, in a third world country. I'm much more moderate in my views now. I have a larger perspective.

Good luck to the person trying to figure out this mess!!! Glad I'm not you!!

[Ima saver]

I agree with Fern!

[eisor]

About the language thing, I'd like to start off by saying that the US does not have an official language; meaning that English isn't the national language. That being said, I do beleive that if you are in a country where the majority of the people speak English, you should probably try your best to learn the language.
But, coming from the big city perspective, it is definitely available for immigrants to come to the US live here for the longest time and really not know any English. There are different areas around here that cater to different races. There are areas where all of the signs are in asian characters (I have no knowledge of the differences between them, so I'd rather not assume that they were all chinese, or all japanese, etc.). There are also areas where everything is in spanish. These areas have groceries, clothing, household goods, restuarants, banks, auto repair, etc. Everything they need is there for them; in their language.

I'm definitely not saying that I agree with all this...I'm just saying that, I can see how people can come to the US and not assimilate and not learn english.

I guess the main issue I have right now is with the taxes. Taxes fund many programs, some of the programs are being used by immigrants, many (not all) of these immigrants do not pay taxes (not including sales tax....which in my opinion doesn' t count for much).

I think the issue would be different if they entered the country legally thus, requiring them to pay taxes ending up in me not paying for people to get free services.

[shelbylovesmelby]

I agree w/ a Fern & Price Plus. I know I'm probably going to catch some grief here too.

I know they do alot of work that other ethnicities (sp?) don't want to do, mainly because the pay stinks. I know it'll impact our economy if they leave, maybe even bring wages up a bit. I'd rather they deport them, put them on the back of the list for the work visa's & give the folks who are willing to do it legally the opportunity first.

My dh works in a non-union shop & let me tell you it's all about the $$$. His company would rather go thru a temp service (in wich 95% don't speak any english @ all!!) during busy season then give their regular employees any o/t. I know it's all about the bottom line, but geez! It's like they want to shove the non-hispanic folks out the door because they want o/t & benefits. It's bad enough all the industry up here left for down south, then to Mexico & now even migrating to China. But all those mfgr jobs are nearly gone from here, you know the ones you heard your grandparents saying how they spent 40yrs @ such & such.

On the language thing, I'm torn on. I'd love to be bi-lingual. Unfortunatly foreign languages when I was in school were & are still optional & I couldn't catch on to the class I did take. But I think everyone should speak english in one form or another so they can effectivly communicate with everyone.

I'm not against immigrants, like Fern said we are all a product of an immigrant family wanting a better life... but DO IT LEGALLY! And pay their taxes like the rest of us.

[shelbylovesmelby]

They also said the boycott also involves them not buying AMERICAN MADE PRODUCTS!?!?!?!
Does anyone else see flaws in this???

I can think of a few flaws....
*most groceries are grown/produced in the USA
*don't hispanics also work in American factories, making American goods???
*most goods on the store shelves aren't made in the USA

[miclason]

Originally Posted by shelbylovesmelby

They also said the boycott also involves them not buying AMERICAN MADE PRODUCTS!?!?!?!
Does anyone else see flaws in this???

I can think of a few flaws....
*most groceries are grown/produced in the USA
*don't hispanics also work in American factories, making American goods???
*most goods on the store shelves aren't made in the USA

The point of this is to show that they don't only work in the US, or not only send their money abroad, but that they DO consume American goods, and this contributes to the American economy as well...

And, they are not saying they will stop consuming these goods, just that they won't purchase them on May 1st...



No offense, but, being upper-middle class in ES, I'd never go live in the US (it's great for visiting, but seeing my friends that migrated, they are all soooo lonely, and, even with all the money problems, I have a lifestyle here that I couldn't have there...i.e. I cannot afford a dishwasher, but, hey! I have a nanny!!...I'm spoiled, I admitt it!)...so, yeah, the people that go there aren't precisely the most educated ones... ...people migrate because they see an opportunity for a lifestyle there that they cannot have here (big TV, car...), and, doing basically the same job they would do here, but here these kinds of job pay so little, they'd be living from one day to the next...It's a very complex issue, and there are no easy, straightforward answers, I'm afraid...

[PrincessPerky]

Before I wouldl complain to much about an immigrant speaking english I wil have to complain about the native born multi generational AMERICAN families that cannot speak the language! (it is ask, not ax..sorry)

[stngymama]

I just find the timing extremely interesting: not the rally/work stoppage which is in response to proposed legislation, but the lawmakers themselves who started out a few weeks ago all of a sudden making a big fuss. Couldn't be the $3.50 gas, the lobbyist scandle, our regretable inability to respond to natural disasters, the Middle East situation, or the upcoming elections?????? Hmmmmm.......

[Cheetahwoman7]

Well, I guess I have a different slant on all of this. I'm a teacher in a school that is over 95% Hispanic. I would say that a majority of the parents don't speak English and MAY not have papers to be in this country. I say "may" because we are not allowed (by law) to ask if the children or their parents are legally here or not. Education is provided to all of the children no matter their or their parents' immigration status.

Here's the rub for me and these demonstrations/ralleys: Flyers are going around our city that state that the parents should take their children out of school for May 1st!!! I don't mind the ralleys, the marches, any of that, but I do mind that these are the same parents who say they want a better life for their children. If that's the case, leave them in school!!! We have two ralleys/marches that are happening here in town. One at 10am, the other at 4pm. I feel that the parents should go to the first one while leaving their children in school, then can take their children to the second one AFTER school is out. We get out here at 2:40pm, plenty of time to make the second ralley.

I don't see how, when the education is free, the books are free, the school supplies are free, the breakfasts and lunches are free, they can bite the hand that feeds them (in a sense). With the State tests coming up on May 2nd, I feel that pulling their children out can only hurt them in the long run, as these State test scores will become part of their permenant record.

Just my two cents!

CJ

[stngymama]

'Course you do realize that if these students are illegal they cannot get into most schools of "higher education", e.g., college, as most require proof of citizenship.

[Cheetahwoman7]

Well, would you rather have them be literate and have a high school education or illiterate with no education? Also, at least at the local community colleges here in my area (Central Coast of California), they DO NOT require proof of citizenship. Maybe the four year colleges and universities do?

[stngymama]

You are correct in that Community Colleges do not require proof of citizenship. It's not illiterate vs literate, just possibly that missing one day of school for a political action may seem like not a big deal, and that state testing may not seem very relevant.
I certainly don't advocate skipping school or illiteracy. There are, however certain social issues for which I would support my kids missing an hour or two, or even a day, of school. But then I'm a product of the sixties, and the [very effective] protests of that time.

[shelbylovesmelby]

Originally Posted by Cheetahwoman7

Well, I guess I have a different slant on all of this. I'm a teacher in a school that is over 95% Hispanic. I would say that a majority of the parents don't speak English and MAY not have papers to be in this country. I say "may" because we are not allowed (by law) to ask if the children or their parents are legally here or not. Education is provided to all of the children no matter their or their parents' immigration status.

Here's the rub for me and these demonstrations/ralleys: Flyers are going around our city that state that the parents should take their children out of school for May 1st!!! I don't mind the ralleys, the marches, any of that, but I do mind that these are the same parents who say they want a better life for their children. If that's the case, leave them in school!!! We have two ralleys/marches that are happening here in town. One at 10am, the other at 4pm. I feel that the parents should go to the first one while leaving their children in school, then can take their children to the second one AFTER school is out. We get out here at 2:40pm, plenty of time to make the second ralley.

I don't see how, when the education is free, the books are free, the school supplies are free, the breakfasts and lunches are free, they can bite the hand that feeds them (in a sense). With the State tests coming up on May 2nd, I feel that pulling their children out can only hurt them in the long run, as these State test scores will become part of their permenant record.

Just my two cents!

CJ

I ment in a round about way they are biting the hand that feeds them. Like CJ said. My sil is also a teacher & the students that are of that decent expect everything for FREE. She said the teachers have to spend their own money to make sure that everyone has school supplies. Wich gets her a bit urked that she has to take $ away from other things that she may need for the classroom or her own family. Her kids even donate their old uniforms so these kids have the required attire.

There are a ton of gas stations in her area where all the illegals gather to wait for farmers & mfgers ect to pull up in trucks & pick whom they want to employ for the day for a few pennies. They are taking away jobs from people who came to this country legally. My hubby went to live down there for a while & unless you were in a union or had a college education you were always competing with the illegals for a minimum wage job w/ no benefits.

If the boycott lasted longer than a day, not only would the businesses suffer but the fact that alot of the US mfgrs of goods would have to cut jobs (their jobs included), hence biting the hand that feeds them & employs them. A restaurant a bit down the way was shut down for a few days because of an Immagration raid. So since this resturant employs illigals but owned by americans they would also be hurting their fellow immigrant by not dineing there. Am I making any sense???

I forgot to mention that I don't agree with making illegals fellons. That's not going to solve anything, but bog up our court system & jails.

I understand that they want to show how they impact the economy, but it is a double edge sword & may bite everyone in the @ss!

[shelbylovesmelby]

Originally Posted by stngymama

You are correct in that Community Colleges do not require proof of citizenship. It's not illiterate vs literate, just possibly that missing one day of school for a political action may seem like not a big deal, and that state testing may not seem very relevant.
I certainly don't advocate skipping school or illiteracy. There are, however certain social issues for which I would support my kids missing an hour or two, or even a day, of school. But then I'm a product of the sixties, and the [very effective] protests of that time.

I think they could of picked a better day so that the kids didn't have to miss school. Plus the majority of retailers do most of their business on the weekends & that would make more of a dent than on a monday.

[stngymama]

Originally Posted by shelbylovesmelby

....I understand that they want to show how they impact the economy, but it is a double edge sword & may bite everyone in the @ss!

You're right, but I think that's the point! They really don't have much to lose, as their "jobs" are precarious with none of the protections citizens have.
I wonder if anyone has done a study to compare the cost/benefits of using illegals. They "take" things for "free", but also get paid considerably less for the same work, thus costing employers and consumers less. It'd be interesting and would certainly resolve many arguments. Right now, it's just opinion.