Know anything about Ethanol? Interesting Article

[jmjj215]

I was reading this article in "Fortune" this morning and found it pretty interesting. It sure would be nice to have an alternative to gasoline - what with prices ticking up again.

Solution to Gas Prices?

What's your take?

[Ima saver]

Wow, this should would be great!

[Ima saver]

Wow, this would be great

[Pickle73]

it's a shame that JUST now this is getting attention. Probably 5+ years ago i my brother was living in ILL (teaching at U of Illinois Urbana-Champaign). And we went to the state fair - which was fun - but being the midwest - ethenol products and information was everywhere. I thought then it was too bad that we can't just use it more widespread. OK, there was no point to my comment, just ranting. I didn't read the article, but I can imagine what it says.. Now may be a good time to be a corn farmer lol.

[gavinmccallister]

The 'Hotspot' gas station where I live uses 10% Ethanol I heard them say that is all they are allowed to use but they are pushing for 90% ethanol and 10% fuel. If anyone has anymore information please correct because I found out through 'hearsay'.

[sweeps]

If ethanol producers can become more efficient, then it would be a great choice. Unfortunately ethanol has low energy content when compared to gasoline. The government has spent billions to subsidize the industry.

[VJW]

Originally Posted by gavinmccallister

The 'Hotspot' gas station where I live uses 10% Ethanol I heard them say that is all they are allowed to use but they are pushing for 90% ethanol and 10% fuel.

You can’t run a 90% ethanol/10% gasoline mix. An 85/15 mix is the highest you can go, as anything higher has problems with cold-starting because ethanol does not have as high a spark combustion level.

Check out E85:

http://www.cleanairchoice.org/outdoor/E85Background.asp

It sells for as much as a buck a gallon cheaper than gasoline.


Also, here is a list of FFVs (Flexible Fuel Vehicles):

http://www.cleanairchoice.org/outdoo...elVehicles.asp

They will operate on any mix from 85% ethanol/15% gasoline, all the way to 100% gasoline, and any mix in between, so that way you are not subject to being stranded without a fuel source.


Very interesting that the 1995-1999 3.0L Taurus sedans are FFV, and make a great work/errand car.

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[jmjj215]

Originally Posted by Sweepsplayer

If ethanol producers can become more efficient, then it would be a great choice. Unfortunately ethanol has low energy content when compared to gasoline. The government has spent billions to subsidize the industry.

I believe the article stated it burns 30% less efficiently.

[Russell]

Why is it not available in CA where we really need an alternative to gasoline. Specially if its Octane rating is 105! that's like race gas. However, how does it compare with gasoline in MPG ? Wish they had it in CA so I could try it.

[sweeps]

Russell, one factor is the agriculture lobbyists. In the midwest (including my state, Illinois) there's a lot of money to be made by mandating the use of ethanol. Until they start making ethanol from grapes, you may not see too much of it in your area.

[gakline]

Originally Posted by Russell

However, how does it compare with gasoline in MPG ?

When I was in Iowa, I would always buy the Ethanol (midgrage) gas. It was about 10 cents cheaper than unleaded. However, mpg definitely reduced. I was driving from Iowa to Indiana often and I noticed that I would use more than half a tank driving to IN on Ethanol. However on the way back, with unleaded, I would make it with a bit more than half a tank.

About 200 miles and 7.5 gallons (half tank).

Local trips, I don't know, I didn't pay attention.

[flash]

Sweepsplayer is right, the idea has been out there a LONG time, and flexfuel has been around awhile. It's not currently economical to produce compared to other alternatives, and there are many people lobbying for many different solutions. The cars do have to be adapted to burn flexfuel, and I don't think that all that many auto makers are investing in this.

[CRFSaver]

I have been reading a ton of things that they can make out of corn bi-products. I was reading recently they were able to extract an oil out of corn that could be used to make a plastic of some kind. Thats where we should be putting money into development. While gas is a big expense look at your desk alone and look at the amount of plastic and products made out of other petrolium products. That's why oil is so high, cause we live in a plastic world. Everything has plastic in it these days. If we could develope plastics off renewable resources it would cut some of our ties to oil and help our agricultural industries at the same time.

[VJW]

Originally Posted by Russell

Why is it not available in CA where we really need an alternative to gasoline. Specially if its Octane rating is 105! that's like race gas. However, how does it compare with gasoline in MPG ? Wish they had it in CA so I could try it.

E85 gets only slightly less MPG than gasoline, but it is usually a lot cheaper.

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[VJW]

Originally Posted by flash

It's not currently economical to produce compared to other alternatives

From the link I previously posted:

"The US Department of Agriculture reports a net energy balance for ethanol production of 1.67. In other words, for every one unit of energy used to produce ethanol and its accompanying co-products, 1.67 units of energy results. However, the US Department of Energy reports that petroleum refining can actually have a negative energy balance. For example, every unit of energy expended in gasoline production is reported to result in only 0.79 units of energy in the form of gasoline."

The cars do have to be adapted to burn flexfuel, and I don't think that all that many auto makers are investing in this.

That would be news to General Motors:

http://www.gm.com/company/onlygm/

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[gakline]

Gas City (at least in IL) has E-85. As of yesterday they were about $0.20 cheaper.

[jmjj215]

So in the fortune article some critics say it would cut into the food supply. Any merit to that?