Why getting ahead is getting harder (article)

[Well Spent]

Interesting. it says it is harder for young people these days to pay for education, move out of their parents' homes, afford to stay out of debt, buy their own homes, have the means to marry and raise children. What do you all think after reading this article?



http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/...9.asp?GT1=7822

[sweeps]

I don't think being broke while in college is a new thing. I rarely had more than $20 to my name during my college years. But I didn't rack up a bunch of credit card debt either -- I ate dorm food and played cards.

I also question the idea of going straight to graduate school without getting a job first. I mean, 6-8 years without any income... What do people expect? Unless you're studying to become a doctor or a lawyer, get a job after your bachelor's degree, and then go to grad school part time. A lot of times your employer will even help you pay for it.

I strongly agree with several of the article's premises though:
1. The "incessant commercial wooing", as the article puts it, is right on. People are being duped by marketers.
2. The article is right on when it says credit card debt is way too easy to come by.
3. The lack of interest in what's happening in the news and in politics has always scared me. I have a lot of friends and peers that complain about how the system is messed up, we shouldn't be in Iraq, government services are being cut, etc. etc. but did they vote in the last election? Of course not.

[Fern]

Well, let's see.

My divorced mother had very little $$ to contribute to a college education. I paid for 4 years tuition through a combination of:
* outright scholarships (no payback required)
* student loans
* working part-time each of the 4 years

So after i graduated at the age of 21, i was paying off student loans for years and was basically working low-paying jobs and really broke, buying secondhand cars and living in not so nice apartments. IT WASN'T UNTIL I WAS AGE 30 when i got my first good job with decent pay (partly becus i had built up some experience) that i started accumulating savings.

Like everything else, you have to work hard to get what you want, and it doesn't come instantly.

[katwoman]

I also question the idea of going straight to graduate school without getting a job first. I mean, 6-8 years without any income... What do people expect? Unless you're studying to become a doctor or a lawyer, get a job after your bachelor's degree, and then go to grad school part time. A lot of times your employer will even help you pay for it.

Sweeps, professors look down on working grad students. One guy I knew said one of his profs practically screamed at him for not being dedicated enough. Grad school and professions like Doc or Lawyer are luxuries. You have to have parents that are willing to support you or sign on with the military. I know PLENTY of people who have :

had their parents support them - this was the most common occurance

joined the military - to become docs and not owe $$$$. Now the military can call them for duty till the age of 45 if they paid for health professions schooling.

worked and had the employer pay the tab - very few were able to do this

Got a free ride from the school - only knew of 2 guys that got this BUT one had his parents pay for housing, food and incidentals that his stipend couldn't cover and the other lived with his GF who was making good money.


Really, it's not as easy as you think.

[PRICEPLUS]

DD can live home till she is ready financially to leave the nest. BAck in the day people styaed at home until they married. I would help out as much as I possibly could!

I think the American Dram is possible but it needs a little help from mom and dad!

[sweeps]

katwoman - I'm not sure where I said going to grad school was easy. In fact I think it is very difficult. Your friend with the professor who hated part-time grad students: It sounds like he needs to go to another school. There are many schools with part-time programs specifically designed for students working full-time. This is how I got my MBA. Granted, it took a lot of time and effort, but I did it.

For the people whose parents can pay for their school or for those who can get a free-ride, kudos for them, but I'm talking about those who have to find a way to get an education on their own. Which if we're talking about grad school is usually the case.

[contrary1]

Good article, at least it the way it got me thinking. I don't agree with all of it and much of it made me cringe.
I don't think things are any harder for young people today..........if anything, they have it easier. So many more options open to them to make money as well as to save it.
The article did point out the commercialism that is so rampant ........pushing products & services on our kids from the time they can sit up. Must be why we don't have a TV in every room........... I would love to see our schools teach some common sense financial courses to our kids........it was sure something I included when homeschooling a batch of my foster kids. It wouldn't guarantee all kids would know how to make & save money, but at least we would be doing something rather than just sitting, watching and criticising.

[jodi]

Sure, getting ahead is harder...especially when we are taught that we "need" to have two cars, a 2500 square foot home, a t.v. in every room, to go on a week-long vacation every year. These are things that people used to work hard for in youth, to enjoy when they are older. But it seems that a lot of young people today feel they are entitled to these things as soon as they get out of college. (I'm not bashing on young people, I consider myself one still at 28, but with parents who drilled a sense of hard work and money management into me).
But even without taking into consideration that we want so much more...I think DH and I would have a hard time buying a modest house (about $80-100k around here) on one salary of $30k per year - an average income where we live. And we spend next to nothing on commercial goods, buying nearly everything used. We both had over $15k in student loans after graduating. it is hard to get started, but we did it - and we did not expect to have everything now, but look forward to the rewards later

[cercis]

Affording college is harder now. Tuition has increased by 17+% in oklahoma the last 2 years (that's each year). The degree I paid $9k (give or take) to get in 1995 now costs $15k (give or take). Minimum wage has had one increase - from $4.25 to $5.15 in that time. It's next to impossible for a student to work his way through college.

The house that 10 years ago sold for $40k now sells for $80k. I remember renting a duplex for $250/month in college, that same duplex now rents for $500/month.

I've worked for one employer who claimed to offer tuition reimbursement. I tried to take them up on it only to be told that 1) my supervisor wouldn't approve it, 2) they would cover 50% of tuition, no books and 3) I had to promise to work for them for 5 years after I received my degree and if they ended my job (which they did, btw, closing our office and laying all of us off) before that 5 years was up I had to pay back every dime with 5% interest - even if my job ended at 4 years 364 days. But none of that mattered because my supervisor wouldn't approve it. It wasn't essential or necessary to my job.

I'm not saying people can't make it, I'm saying it is much more difficult.

[jmjj215]

Went to a semester of community college free b/c my high school grades were okay. Volunteered for my church for two years. Went to a private university and my dad paid the first year of tuition (thanks Dad!). During that year I busted my tail and worked part-time, got straight As and have been on scholarship since. Now, just wrapping up my last semester of graduate school (master's of accountancy) with zero debt, money set aside for a downpayment, a wife and little boy, a paid for car, and a job. The answer to my woes was to work 30+ hours once I got married. And we scrimp and save like crazy. I also kick-started my business while doing this.

It's very hard, but I'm not the sharpest tack in the box either - work is a much larger part of the equation. If my Dad hadn't helped me w/ that first year of tuition, I would've definitely had to have waited another year before I started.

I don't think we have it any tougher than our parents or their parents - different - but not tougher. Heck, my wife and I eat off the same card table that my parents ate off of when they were married college kids. Being broke has some serious advantages in that your perspective is changed and you see things a bit different. I'm glad we've had to struggle these last 3 years to finish up. It's been only positive. Our second baby's coming a month after I graduate

Sorry for the long rant. Just giving my two cents as a guy that's finally rounding the last curve of a long race.

[PrincessPerky]

Congrats on the new kid

I think part of the trouble ius the assumption that people 'deserve' an easy ride.

That and the whole 'comercialism' while it has always been there, it is gaining acceptance as the 'norm'. Apparently we can't turn our TVs off or ignore the billboards, we MUST have that newfangled Ipod or PSP or Tivo or razer Nothing against any of that, but you are not deprived if you missout. People of previous generations missed out on the 'newfangled' stuff too, (only to them newfangled was TV, or internet)

[acezz4e_tish]

cost of living and inflation is the bugger that makes it more difficult. Look at the cost today against the cost of when we went to school, it has more then doubled in size. I remember classes costing say 20 dollars per credit, now its like 65 for those inside the district. I know im eligable for free schooling and i believe my kids are allowed the same grants i would be, as a single parent, i got pell and seog when i took criminal justice courses, but i still had to pay for books which were reimbursed after i graduated the courses with above a c average requirement. I had an a average, but c was required by the grants. I even got enough back to cover, paper,pens etc. my books prolly 500, supplies over time, not to sure, didnt keep track, but my reimbursement check was 888. im sure that even covered my lunches.

[tomkat]

My single mother didn't have a lot of money available for my college either. So, I busted my tail in high school, made straight A's and landed a full scholarship to college where everything--tuition, room and board, books, and supplies (I didn't even have to buy a pencil or a notebook with my own money) was paid for. When I was working on my master's degree, I worked full time and went to grad school part-time. Fortunately, we have a university here in town that caters to the working adult, so it wasn't that difficult to do. And, my employer paid for my master's degree. I had to stay with them for two years after I got it, but that was a small price to pay, and those two years flew by quickly.

Yes, life is hard, but sometimes you have to put forth effort to find opportunities to make it less hard. Although I haven't been good with my money, I'm proud to say that I've not had to depend on my mom for financial support. I've been financially independent since before I graduated college at age 23. Moving back home was not an option for me...I was determined to make it on my own. One of my college classmates and I got together and got an apartment together, and we lived together for 7 years until I bought a house of my own, using money that I'd saved for a down payment.

While times are difficult, I think some kids today are just lazy...they want mommy and daddy to take care of them instead of bucking up and taking care of themselves.

[DivaJen]

Originally Posted by jmjj215

Our second baby's coming a month after I graduate

Congrats!

[Ima saver]

I agree tomkat. I did not finish college I am sorry to say. but I did make all a's in highschool and I got a scholarship to college. I got a full time job working 40 hours at a restaurant and 8 hours in a library besides going to class full time. Due to a problem with my mother, I had to drop out of college in my junior year, so I did not go back.
Somebody said something about the newfangled gadgets, no we never had them and to some extent we still don't. I don't own a cd player, or ipod(whatever that is) or cell phone and until last christmas, no computer. We watched black and white tv's for years until color tv's became cheap.
I have never made more than minimum wage but I live in a nice, paid for, house. I just did without a lot of "stuff" that everyone else had to have.
I have a friend that does not have $20 in the bank and is always borowing from her family. Whenever she comes to visit, she brings me all kinds of gifts. when we go to an attractions, she has to spend a fortune on souveniers to take home to everyone. Some people just have to buy everything and they wind up really having nothing. I have tried to change her for 30 years, but she won't listen.

[mjrube94]

Originally Posted by tomkat

I think some kids today are just lazy...they want mommy and daddy to take care of them instead of bucking up and taking care of themselves.

This quote made me remember this article from the Boston Globe. Apparently, "parental overinvolvement" in their kids' lives, basically tending to every little problem that crops up, has led Northeastern University (among others) to hold a special parent orientation when they drop off their kids, basically telling them (in as nice a way as possible) to back off, and let their kids handle their own problems. Maybe if more kids learned that mom and dad weren't always there to bail them out, they'd be a little more self-sufficient...

http://www.boston.com/news/education...ering_parents/

[acezz4e_tish]

i dont think there can be such as thing as overinvolvement. im very involved in my kids days. noone seems to mind either, and even the teacher will notify me when something is needed cause she knows i love to support thier efforts. when parents arent involved, u end up with columbine. i live near jonesboro. its a sad time, they were just on american justice tonight too.

[jmjj215]

I don't think it's inflation/cost of living nearly as much as it's cost of "wants". People just want more - and they spend OPM to get it - mortgaging their future incomes in the process.

[Snoopy2645]

Well add me to the list I went to school & worked ft & was a single mom at 18 & living on my own never went on welfare & never had to depend on anyone btw the father couldnt help at the time & never has offered much in the last 11yrs. And for my dh he graduated just last month with straight A's & a degree in engineering & was working 60plus hours a week on top of it all. And neither one of us had anyone to fall back on both of our fathers have passed away. And our moms have enough on thier plate in fact my mom will graduate in may from college with a degree in accounting.


What I believe is getting ahead is not much harder than before I believe if you work hard good things will follow!! But so many out thier today dont want to work hard I know two girls I have gotten to be friends with one goes to school 3 half days a week & thats all she can handle no work nothing!! And the other works 1 day a week and thats all she can handle just so many people with such poor work ethic. KWIM & yet these same people are carrying cell phones which I would never waste my money on.

[cicy33]

Originally Posted by acezz4e_tish

i dont think there can be such as thing as overinvolvement. im very involved in my kids days. noone seems to mind either, and even the teacher will notify me when something is needed cause she knows i love to support thier efforts. when parents arent involved, u end up with columbine. i live near jonesboro. its a sad time, they were just on american justice tonight too.

I think that the poster meant when they are dropped off for college. And I totally agree. I mean when do people think it is time for these kids to grow up! I started this about the time my daughter was 10. She had to start learning to get what she wanted by working for it and to solve her own problems. Now she is a 20 year old responsible young woman. She does have all the "stuff" BUT she pays for it and works overtime if she wants something. She didn't go to college but does work full time. and now adays frankly college is overrated. I have a degree and can't get a decent paying job in my field. working for lawyers. they pay the worst! So I became an office administrator.