Healthcare: Pride & Prejudice

[VJW]

Originally Posted by Bruce Wayne

Aren't taxes the opposite of liberty because you don't have freedom over paying them or not?

No.

Everything else can be provided better by voluntary markets.

Fantasy.

It seems from what I've read that the US healthcare market is far from being a free marketplace

But it is. Health insurance companies are completely free to offer any health insurance plans they like, or none at all in a particular state, if that is their wish. People are completely free to purchase any health insurance policy they wish.

What part of that do you not comprehend ?

True and fair competition is the key and it seems that neither ... offer it.

I’m afraid you’re deluded.

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[sweeps]

Originally Posted by VJW

http://tompaine.com/.....

I wouldn't consider this an unbiased source.

Originally Posted by VJW

NBC News did an entire series about how ERs had turned people away. They always hid behind another excuse, of course.

Just because a few hospitals engage in bad behavior doesn't mean the system is necessarily wrong or broken.

Originally Posted by VJW

45 million without health insurance is, by definition, rationing.

Rationing is purposefully restricting supply. No one is purposefully restricting the supply of health insurance.

[sweeps]

Originally Posted by VJW

Well, that would be a wrong assumption, as I don’t know of a single federally elected official that has ever proposed anything like that.

Ok, so if you're not advocating government control of the health care system, then please enlighten me how you propose universal health insurance for all 300 million Americans.

Originally Posted by VJW

Not at all.

Read up, dude.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_liberalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism_(United_States)

Originally Posted by VJW

Actually, so-called “conservative policies” advocate “more government influence and control”, just in different areas.

This is true if we're talking about social issues (e.g. gay marriage, abortion, etc.), but since this whole thread and this whole web site is about financial and fiscal issues, this is irrelevant.

Originally Posted by VJW

“Liberal” is a derivative of ‘Liberty’.

Thanks for the etymology lesson. Again, I'm looking for relevance.

[sweeps]

Originally Posted by VJW

No.
Fantasy.
What part of that do you not comprehend ?
I’m afraid you’re deluded.

Do you try to convince people of your view, or do you simply try to start sh*t? I can't stand neoconservatives and the Bush administration, but when you go on your tirades, I strangely find myself defending them because you can be so belligerent.

[VJW]

Originally Posted by Sweepsplayer

I wouldn't consider this an unbiased source.

That may be debatable, but the supporting links most certainly are.

Just because a few hospitals engage in bad behavior doesn't mean the system is necessarily wrong or broken.

Never claimed it did. Put down that goal post you’re carrying around.

‘pyotr’ had posted:

“there is not an ER in the country that can get away with turning away a patient”

Rationing is purposefully restricting supply. No one is purposefully restricting the supply...

News to me.

So when for-profit hospital emergency rooms turn people away, that’s not “purposefully restricting supply” ? When corporate HMOs deny medical care to increase profits, that’s not “purposefully restricting supply” ? When the Republican Majority Congress passes legislation to cut funding for Medicaid, that’s not “purposefully restricting supply” ?

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[VJW]

Originally Posted by Sweepsplayer

Ok, so if you're not advocating government control of the health care system, then please enlighten me how you propose universal health insurance for all 300 million Americans.

Quite simply. We as a nation do the very same thing that the majority of the Fortune 100 companies have done. Dump the insurance companies and self-insure with a single-payer insurance system as most other industrialized nations on the planet have done.

Read up, dude.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_liberalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism_(United_States)

Wikipedias are opinion based.

This is true if we're talking about social issues (e.g. gay marriage, abortion, etc.), but since this whole thread and this whole web site is about financial and fiscal issues, this is irrelevant.

Au contraire.

It applies to business, economic policies, household policies, wages, credit, and many other areas.

Thanks for the etymology lesson. Again, I'm looking for relevance.

Not sure why you’re having such difficulty.

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[VJW]

Originally Posted by Sweepsplayer

Do you try to convince people of your view

Nope. Just the facts.

> No.
> Fantasy.
> What part of that do you not comprehend ?
> I’m afraid you’re deluded.

I can't stand neoconservatives and the Bush administration, but when you go on your tirades, I strangely find myself defending them because you can be so belligerent.

You consider those extremely short responses to be “tirades” ?

Quite interesting.

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[sweeps]

Originally Posted by VJW

We as a nation do the very same thing that the majority of the Fortune 100 companies have done. Dump the insurance companies and self-insure with a single-payer insurance system as most other industrialized nations on the planet have done.

Well, there ya go. There's an actual solution to a problem. You'll be surprised how much more effective a thoughtful discussion can be, rather than snippy responses and personal attacks.

[VJW]

I’ve posted that “actual solution to a problem” numerous previous times, and there is most of at least two threads thrashing it out.

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[VJW]

Nice follow-up to the healthcare issue:

HEALTH COVERAGE

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[cercis]

What that article didn't say is that many hospitals are turning bills over for collection even when you're making payments. It used to be that you could pay $5/month and they'd keep it, now if you don't make what they decide is the minimum payment (which is usually 10% of the bill or $300, depending on the hospital) then they turn you over to collections.

The collections agency I worked for collected for Baptist Hospital. This is a christian, non-profit hospital. Most of the accounts they turned over for collections had made a payment in the last month. All of them had made payments in the last 3 months.

We've been to the emergency room once. When my then 3yo fell and split his eyelid open. He clearly needed stitches, it was Friday night at 10:00 (visiting my mom, Nana always insists we let the kids stay up late when visiting her) so we couldn't go to a doctor's office, it was the ER or nothing. We decided to visit a family friend who is an ER doctor first to make sure it really was as bad as I thought, and he agreed, stitches were necessary. So off to the ER. We were lucky - $400 for 3 stitches and we didn't even have to wait more than 5 minutes. But it's a good thing it happened at my mom's and she felt guilty (it was her treadmill) and she covered it. At that point, we would have had to go hungry for several months to cover it.