Do you believe that men should be the head of the household

[GREENBACK]

Originally Posted by Well Spent

I also question males who lack humanity by impregnating females and washing their hands of them when it's so easy to wear a condom or get a vasectomy and alleviate the burden the state has in providing for them.

This does boil down to a simple lack of personal responsibility. The men described simply lack it. The women described lack it or ignore it. Who makes up the difference? You and me of course.

[GREENBACK]

Originally Posted by LivingAlmostLarge

Because sometimes a woman wants a baby and THINKS it will change a boy into a man. I hear this a lot from girlfriends. If I have a baby, maybe he'll grow up.

Um, never happens but hey I'm still waiting to see some guy turn it around and grow up.

This is an interesting point. Women who think they can change men. That's one hell of a roll of the dice to think that a baby will turn a childish boy into a responsible man.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

And how many women have heard that from girlfriends? I wanted to get married and have kids and he wasn't proposing? So I accidentally forgot to take my birth control here and there?

Yeah it happens a lot.

How do I know? Because if you "were" on birth control you wouldn't be getting pregnant. Saying well I sort of used pills isn't birth control, it's just you don't want to admit to trying.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by LivingAlmostLarge

Because if you "were" on birth control you wouldn't be getting pregnant.

To be fair, no birth control method except abstinence is 100% successful. Even a woman who takes her pill every day or has an IUD in or gets a DepoProvera shot has a small risk of pregnancy. Even having her tubes tied or a guy having a vasectomy is not 100% successful. There are still pregnancies that occur.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Yes definitely. But then most women steve don't even use pills or any birth control even close to properly. Most "take" bc most of the time. Or use a condom "most" of the time.

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by Rande273

I think that the world was a better place when the woman would stay home and take care of the house and the kids. The end of moral family values ended with womens lib. around in the mid. 60's. When ever I look at a Norman Rockwell painting I wish that life was like that now. Mothers and daughters were in the kitchen baking pies while Fathers and sons fixed a broken barn door or went fishing.
Now both parents work while the kids spend all day on the internet or playing violent video games.

Interesting.

I believe that a married couple share this responsibility -- just like was done back in the Norman Rockwell days. I think those paintings, while extremely pure and original, portray the idealism and that there was even back then, a very real concern for the lack of time to lead that kind of relaxed ideal life as protrayed by Normal Rockwell. Sort of real-life fantasy as in those days.

Do you honestly believe The Mom's & daughters were always in that kitchen prep'ing food? Do you honestly believe that only men had it difficult working to earn money? Do you think that housework and caring for children, and manually doing most of the chores like washing, is not work as well?

Everything cost much less then, beginning with the land that was farmed for most of the foodstufs.

What do you propose for all the unmarried in today's society?

Do you also believe that arranged marriages are the way to go?

Do you believe that the "contributions" of women back in WWI & WWII are also negligible?

[swanson719]

I don't think the OP was saying anything along the lines of women needing to be barefoot and pregnant at all. The message I get is that with the rise of womens lib, which led to massive liberalism in general - abortion, gay marriage, anti-gun laws, etc - we have seen the moral fabric of society slowly decay. When was the last time you saw a kid do work just to help out the family? That would rather be with their parents on the farm than playing video games or going out with friends?

What happened to the days of Andy and Barney? Leave it to Beaver? That's what life used to be like, and then the 60's happened. Now it's easier for a 15 yr old to have an abortion than for that same 15 yr old to open a bank account. That's a problem.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Moral decay occurred without abortion, gay marriage, and anti-gun laws, please.

Hello moral family Jon and Kate? Hello Sarah Palin's pregnant and barefoot teenage daughter?

People worship at celebrities and are glorifying teen pregnancy, instead of discussing prevention and why celebrities live lives WAY above their means.

Basic values of don't beat up your spouse (Hello chris brown and rihanna), don't be deeply in debt (Micheal Jackson), don't cheat (hello enron), and don't bother preaching abstinence (Hello Bristol Palin).

Is it really because of abortion, guns, and gay marriage?

Yeah right. It's more likely from following reality tv shows Jon and Kate, Duggars 18, etc. Shows people "love" for wholesomeness. What values? I don't seen any great christian values at work.

[Well Spent]

Originally Posted by swanson719

I don't think the OP was saying anything along the lines of women needing to be barefoot and pregnant at all. The message I get is that with the rise of womens lib, which led to massive liberalism in general - abortion, gay marriage, anti-gun laws, etc - we have seen the moral fabric of society slowly decay. When was the last time you saw a kid do work just to help out the family? That would rather be with their parents on the farm than playing video games or going out with friends?

What happened to the days of Andy and Barney? Leave it to Beaver? That's what life used to be like, and then the 60's happened. Now it's easier for a 15 yr old to have an abortion than for that same 15 yr old to open a bank account. That's a problem.

It's because of "women's lib" that domestic violence is now a criminal offense. A husband/father beating and raping his family wasn't necessarily a crime 100 years ago. Slavery, arranged marriage, indentured servitude, "comfort women" during wars (women forced into prostitution to be raped by American and foreign soldiers), children forced to drop out of school and work without the safety and protection of child labor laws,were all ways of life back in the "good old days". Kids in my family help their parents with chores. They also enjoy spending time with their friends and playing vidoe games. It's because of technology that we have more leisure time and recreational games and options than ever before in human history. Would you rather load your dirty laundry in the machine and have it be wased and dried in about 1.5 hours or take it down to the river to wash it and lay it over rocks to dry all afternoon?

Lw enforcement officials of Andy and Barney's time investigated murders, rapes, arson, child abuse, theft, home invasions, organized crime, pedophiles, ect. There was just fewer media so it wasn't publicized as often.
Ward could have been an alcoholic, Jun could have been a pill-popper, and Wally and The Beav could have been molested by their baseball coach or choir teacher. Humans haven't changed. Society doesn't allow secretsas much anymore so we know more. Victims are more likely to come forward since we as a society let go of the pretense of "the perfect family" and "the good old days".

I'm thankful for abortion laws so women don't have to die trying to abort unwanted pregnancies. They deserve access to medical procedures that will allow them to live lives of freedom and integrity. The last thing our society needs is people being forced to become parents against their will. In my community, a man and his girlfriend were just arrested for beating his son to death on Father's Day. The grandmother had custody of the child since the mom was unfit. The dad went to court to get visitation with his son for the summer school vacation because he didn' want to just be a "paycheck dad". I dont want to see more people being forced into having kids aginst their will The kids suffer.

[Walt_Pennsyl]

Wow what a loaded question! I'm not touching this one with a ten foot pole!

[graceful]

Originally Posted by Rande273

I think that the world was a better place when the woman would stay home and take care of the house and the kids. The end of moral family values ended with womens lib. around in the mid. 60's. When ever I look at a Norman Rockwell painting I wish that life was like that now. Mothers and daughters were in the kitchen baking pies while Fathers and sons fixed a broken barn door or went fishing.
Now both parents work while the kids spend all day on the internet or playing violent video games.

I agree with your title that men should be the head of the household but disagree with everything else in your post. LOL.

[cantretire]

Quote:
Originally Posted by swanson719 View Post
I don't think the OP was saying anything along the lines of women needing to be barefoot and pregnant at all. The message I get is that with the rise of womens lib, which led to massive liberalism in general - abortion, gay marriage, anti-gun laws, etc - we have seen the moral fabric of society slowly decay. When was the last time you saw a kid do work just to help out the family? That would rather be with their parents on the farm than playing video games or going out with friends?

What happened to the days of Andy and Barney? Leave it to Beaver? That's what life used to be like, and then the 60's happened. Now it's easier for a 15 yr old to have an abortion than for that same 15 yr old to open a bank account. That's a problem.
It's because of "women's lib" that domestic violence is now a criminal offense. A husband/father beating and raping his family wasn't necessarily a crime 100 years ago. Slavery, arranged marriage, indentured servitude, "comfort women" during wars (women forced into prostitution to be raped by American and foreign soldiers), children forced to drop out of school and work without the safety and protection of child labor laws,were all ways of life back in the "good old days". Kids in my family help their parents with chores. They also enjoy spending time with their friends and playing vidoe games. It's because of technology that we have more leisure time and recreational games and options than ever before in human history. Would you rather load your dirty laundry in the machine and have it be wased and dried in about 1.5 hours or take it down to the river to wash it and lay it over rocks to dry all afternoon?

Lw enforcement officials of Andy and Barney's time investigated murders, rapes, arson, child abuse, theft, home invasions, organized crime, pedophiles, ect. There was just fewer media so it wasn't publicized as often.
Ward could have been an alcoholic, Jun could have been a pill-popper, and Wally and The Beav could have been molested by their baseball coach or choir teacher. Humans haven't changed. Society doesn't allow secretsas much anymore so we know more. Victims are more likely to come forward since we as a society let go of the pretense of "the perfect family" and "the good old days".

I'm thankful for abortion laws so women don't have to die trying to abort unwanted pregnancies. They deserve access to medical procedures that will allow them to live lives of freedom and integrity. The last thing our society needs is people being forced to become parents against their will. In my community, a man and his girlfriend were just arrested for beating his son to death on Father's Day. The grandmother had custody of the child since the mom was unfit. The dad went to court to get visitation with his son for the summer school vacation because he didn' want to just be a "paycheck dad". I dont want to see more people being forced into having kids aginst their will The kids suffer.

First, my nephew started working in high school, so yes, kids can still be responsible.

What happened to the days of Andy and Barney? Leave it to Beaver? That's what life used to be like, and then the 60's happened.

NO! At least a quarter of women worked outside the home in the 40s and 50s. There were even more before that. Think of immigrant tenement dwellers starting from after the Civil War, the girls and young women working in the shirtwaist and other clothing factories, helping husbands run businesses, cleaning the homes and being servants of the higher classes, hosting and caring for boarders, working out of the home - the list is endless.

My parents grew up in the 40s and 50s and that Norman Rockwell life simply did not exist. It's a stylized image that the government wanted people to believe after WWII to get women out of the job market so that returning soldiers could find work, and their wives would spend the money their husbands were making on all those new toasters and new-fangled refrigerators that were being built, well, by their husbands.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by cantretire

At least a quarter of women worked outside the home in the 40s and 50s.

Women have always been in the workforce. What changed with the women's lib movement was where in the workforce you found women. Woman started showing up in careers that used to be exclusively or nearly exclusively male. Before that, plenty of women worked in jobs that were stereotypically female dominated. Waitress, cashier, hair salon, nurse, housekeeper, etc.

[happygirl]

I think the concept of male "head of household" isn't so much about whether or not the wife works. To me, it's more about a strong, mature, loving man who uses wise judgment, the wise counsel of a loving wife and a rational thought process to make decisions in the best interest of his family. I think too often today people just want to do what feels good right now rather than sacrifice for the greater good and use self control when needed.

[wincrasher]

What is this moral decline you are talking about?

You mean women raising kids in poverty by themselves?
You mean women actually leaving/divorcing their abusive husbands?
You mean not beating/ostracizing/hating the gays?
You mean people of different races marrying?
You mean people raising kids with no marriage/living together?
You mean women wearing shoes and speaking without being spoken to first?

Get a grip.

The definition of family has changed. It happened in the 20th century. It's different now, but still important. The "Leave it to Beaver" picture of family life just won't work anymore. That business model wasn't sustainable and wages haven't kept up to make it work for most people.

You know, Bernie Madoff lived this family model you speak of. What a pillar of morality that guy was.