no man is an island

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I run my financial blog for fun. I also enjoy the commentary. But recently I've been feeling more and more like every man for himself. I get a lot of comments from readers who feel as though everything they have is THEIRS. They need to keep all their money, they don't want to pay taxes, they aren't interested in potentially a one healthcare system, and think helping others is a waste of time.

That everyone needs personal responsibility. Okay I get that point. But seriously, I believe what John Donne said "no man is an island, we are interconnected".

I feel as though, yes there is personal responsibility, but we should help people get back on their feet and moving forward, not step on them while they are down. I feel saddened that people believe there isn't a minimum level, standard level of care in the US. I don't believe, but maybe I'm wrong that people are uninsured health insurance wise because they are cheap ass bastards.

I also wonder what about people who don't have all the benefits starting out that most people take for granted? Is it wrong to help?

I actually think many people are uninsured because they cannot afford it or are uninsurable. I also believe that people don't declare bankruptcy because they have $100k in credit card debts and $5k in medical bills. I actually believe people are in serious medical bill debts.

I just am in a funk right now because I seem to get a lot of greed on my blog. Personally I'm greedy too, I like having money. No if ands or butts!

Yet, I grew up very poor and am fortunate now. My mom and I were talking last night about the presidential forum on service. Her thing was everyone should spend 1 year from age 18-19 in "service". We could get paid like a work-study job, not a lot, but something in your community where you live so the income wouldn't have too be a lot. That would teach people about the less fortunate, and give us a year to mature before college. I have been pondering her idea and I can't say it's not a good idea.

I guess what bothers me is that I hear a lot on my blog, I was poor, but now I am rich. It's all mine. I should be keeping more of it. I'm sure they wonder what planet I'm from. But I still think that if we helped each other out a little we might be better off in the long run.

Can you say something to make me think of the good in people right now? That it's not all about the money though we're on a money board?

On a side note, the same people who write about being rich, savings, etc, say things like spending money is bad and "hard" to do. That it's wasteful and sinful to live above being "austere".

I think that's the other troubling part. Enjoying your money. When did it become bad to enjoy your money?

[sweeps]

LAL, I don't have a good response for you, but your post made me think about a post at another blog that has generated some buzz:

Op-Ed: My Experience & Why We Need Healthcare Reform A.S.A.P.

[jIM_Ohio]

A common healthcare system is not necessary. Healthcare reform is necessary, but it might not be health insurance for all. I have said this often before- the problem with healthcare is that people want healthcare but do not want to pay for the care received (based on what they paid in the past).

Sure lots of blame and problems with that statement, but deep down that is the issue.

Her thing was everyone should spend 1 year from age 18-19 in "service". We could get paid like a work-study job, not a lot, but something in your community where you live so the income wouldn't have too be a lot. That would teach people about the less fortunate, and give us a year to mature before college. I have been pondering her idea and I can't say it's not a good idea.

It's not a good idea- it's a bad one. Don't require 100% of people in the USA to do anything- that is not one of our founding principles. Let people choose to do what they want and have a service program set up for those which are interested out of HS (that would be better than kids graduating HS then working fast food figuring out what to do).

Can you say something to make me think of the good in people right now? That it's not all about the money though we're on a money board?

On a side note, the same people who write about being rich, savings, etc, say things like spending money is bad and "hard" to do. That it's wasteful and sinful to live above being "austere".

We are all anonymous here- do not take the comments people give you here as advice without truly thinking of what it means to you. If I took everyone's advice or comments seriously, I might not have recovered from one bad day 7 days ago.

I plan to live the high life soon as well. We are able to afford many things others around us cannot. Not my issue. I also try not to use my numbers too much on my blog, unless they are percentages- so that it does not appear as though I am talking down or flaunting my money to others.

It's nice to be important but it's more important to be nice.

[Caoineag]

Maybe you just aren't reading the ones where people are helping other people out? I know for awhile I would blog about helping my friend get her feet under her but there is no need for me to blog about that now because its done. She is on her own feet, she is learning to budget her money and is doing very well. I know that I read several blogs at the time from people who were doing the same sort of thing to a certain extent.

The thing is, if you are truly helping someone get on their feet, it tends to be a one time event. Extended maybe, but helping someone generally means also teaching them how to not need to rely on others in the future.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Here's a recent comment about people wanting to keep their money. I am sorry but I just don't feel like everyone is bad.

My DH and I have been at the SS office. We certainly look young and healthy, I can only imagine what this commenter would have thought if they saw us. Probably "Worthless, lazy, and stupid".



LAL- While I can appreciate your arguments I’ll still have to disagree. I have excellent insurance because I work hard to provide for my family. Socialized health care will not improve or cheapen my benefits the only outcome of it will be an increased cost to me to help pay for the less fortunate. And frankly I’m tired of helping the less fortunate.

After my wife was diagnosed we waited the 6 months and applied for Social Security benefits. You want an eye opened to the evils of socialism take a day off and go hang out at your local SS office. There you will get to see all of the stereotypes right in front of your face. I work hard and make over 100K but I easily had the worst car in the parking lot and I was the only one with a job! Well of course we were denied. We never re-applied because frankly I want nothing to do with the system anymore. It really made me realize that no matter how hard I or my wife work the government is just going to take it to help the “less fortunate”.

The old fable about the ant and the grasshopper is coming true except this time the grasshoppers have the full backing of the Federal government. So at this point in my life if the less fortunate can’t eat or get health care I really don’t care. Harsh, yes but no one ever said life is fair.

[Seeker]

John Donne:

"All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated...As therefore the bell that rings to a sermon, calls not upon the preacher only, but upon the congregation to come: so this bell calls us all: but how much more me, who am brought so near the door by this sickness....No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."

We are all connected as human beings, if we choose to be. Many people have not choosen humanity in today's times... many people are still in themselves. I think we see this more in the youth of today.

Many people are contradictory in what they "need" and "want"; not only for themselves but for their friends and family. What is truely important to each of us? I think people's priorities HAVE changed.

We see other people choose unwisely, and then we choose not to help. If we see people choose wisely, or when something happens out of a person's control, then we help. At least that's my experience.

I will not give to a "smoker" begging on the street, but I'll give to the Brownies/Girl Scouts selling cookies. I'll not give to a person who takes no action to try to better themselves or help themselves without begging. I'll give to the kids at the High School holding a car wash rally to fund some project.

John Donne was ill and he died before his 60th birthday. Unfortunately "death" and the coming to terms with the inevitable end of our lives, is usually what brings each of us to the reality that "no man is an island" and that really we do all depend on each other for survival.

Look at hurrican Ike, look at all the people helping each other in Texas, Louisana, and Arkansas. There are still good, caring and giving people around -- people who will go out of their way to help one another. Unfortunately, it's usually the catastrophies in life, that bring out the best in humanity.

Helping does not always involve money. There's many many ways of helping.

The "greed" you see and feel with money, is because people don't know whom to trust; they don't know what the future holds for them and thus they feel they "need to save" -- to secure their future or the future of thier loved ones. I feel this way too.

It's not that it's bad to "enjoy your money" -- it's bad to be unprepared. I as an individual would feel bad to ask someone else for money for some unexpected event that I did not plan for.

If I took a vacation and spent a lot of money, then the following week suffered some horrible auto-accident (or whatever); I would feel that I failed in some way, even though it might be out of my control.

We are human beings, fallible and fragile. We depend on ourselves and others for our very lives. A drunk driver can take that away from us in an instant; we can get sick, we can lose our jobs, we can lose everything we hold dear, yet we still journey forward. Life goes on, full of ups and downs, and no man is an island...

[PrincessPerky]

I would gladly help a fellow out, but I do NOT support socialized health care, I do NOT want to live in a communist country, I do not want to live in a socialist country.

I firmly believe that the more you tell the govt to do the less people will do for themselves or for others.

I do many things, and give both time and money to causes myself. I would have more to do so with if I didn't have to pay for so many broken socialist programs.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Thank you scanner and PP. Both interesting thoughts.

I think PP, I want people to care more than just money. At the end of the day it's just money. It doesn't make up for everything else and pinching every penny till it screams just doesn't do it for me.

I could care less in some ways. I am responsible because it think people should be. BUT I don't love my money. If my DH was disabled tomorrow and couldn't work it wouldn't bother me a bit.

But I think for many it would. Because the money seems to have a huge amount of status in our society. We judge each others worth based on how much money we have.

I guess it just bothers me.

[sweeps]

Originally Posted by PrincessPerky

I would gladly help a fellow out, but I do NOT support socialized health care, I do NOT want to live in a communist country, I do not want to live in a socialist country.

I firmly believe that the more you tell the govt to do the less people will do for themselves or for others.

I do many things, and give both time and money to causes myself. I would have more to do so with if I didn't have to pay for so many broken socialist programs.

I agree with the sentiment, but what's not mentioned is who else can you trust? Big business doesn't care about you either. They'll give you the shaft every chance they get. At least with the government, you KNOW when you're getting the shaft because it's public information and well-publicized.

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by sweeps

I agree with the sentiment, but what's not mentioned is who else can you trust? Big business doesn't care about you either. They'll give you the shaft every chance they get. At least with the government, you KNOW when you're getting the shaft because it's public information and well-publicized.

That's the problem. You cannot trust anyone with money except the person you know best -- yourself. And if you cannot trust yourself -- then you have a REAL problem! This is why there's greed in the first place. Nobody knows what is best for "me" -- except me.

Nobody "likes" to see the government waste money. Nobody likes to see businesses waste money. And nobody likes to see other people "waste" money either.

But, what "waste" will occur if all people get better health care? If handled correctly, managed properly, long-term the health of all people should be better and that means less of a drain for emergiencies that may have been treatable with accessible health care before becoming an emergency and a drain. Other countries do this.

Of course, that's the huge factor... If handled correctly and managed properly. So, what's the plan? Which country are they planning to model this after? Or is this just another voting contention? But then again, what if this does come to pass and if even some people are helped this way? Would you deny those dollars going there period?

We all see wasted dollars every day. I see quotes for equipment come across my desk that are outrageous... I could buy a new computer and half of another for the cost of one repair, but these are quotes for repairing equipment that just is not made anymore. We don't have a choice, it's either repair or replace the entire system and spend a whole lot more for replacing.

I have no problem paying taxes for services that could potentially help someone whom would not otherwise get any help. Yes, there will be abuses, corruption and waste.... where is there not?

[LivingAlmostLarge]

No where. But in the US it seems more than anywhere else we want to be individuals. There is no compassion it seems.

[cptacek]

LAL, why does "compassion" = "the government pays for it" in your eyes?

[PrincessPerky]

Originally Posted by cptacek

LAL, why does "compassion" = "the government pays for it" in your eyes?

excellent question.

a govt is a big business, which is why I feel charity is the place for compassion, not socialistic systems.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

NOT government, but people complain, bash and feel slighted that there is a mortgage, credit, and debt crisis. They complain about their taxes, they complain about their health insurance.

Complain, complain, and complain. And then bad mouth those in trouble. Cut them some damn slack and be appreciated and compassionate for everything you have.

I don't think it's necessary for only handouts from the government. BUT i am sick and tired of hearing, only about handouts and hows it's ruining your perfect life. It's not easy and geez think about the other person sometimes. That walking in their shoes, perhaps some are greedy, venal, and cheating the system.

but what happened to thinking that perhaps your dollars is really helping someone in need? It feels like we worship at saving every buck.

That spending is wrong, that we need to be frugal or god forbid we buy something above absolute necessity. It's a shame that we waste money and be sinful.