Risk and Debt

[littleroc02us]

Since most of the people who control the airwaves on this forum believe that Debt isn't risk, I can no longer believe in the credibility of this forum. There are members such as Jpg7n16 who make immature comments such as: LittleRoc is super irriating to me, Way to show me up, You don't want to get into a math debate with me. Create another thread and you and I can debate over there, I never trust your math, I never trust your math.

or LivingAlmost Large who says things like: Littleroc doesn't understand basic math, basic taxes, basic budgeting period. Probably because he's never owned stocks and investments so actually paying taxes on stocks doesn't comprehend.

These are the responses you will get from members who don't agree with your beliefs. These two individuals, all I can say is Good luck with that!

You guys keep talking about stuff with your ways that I don't believe in, therefore there is no way I would keep posting or helping people on this forum when I don't respect a lot of the people on it. See ya, I've never felt so unwelcome anywhere in my entire life. Those 2 members need help.

[humandraydel]

Originally Posted by littleroc02us

These are the responses you will get from members who don't agree with your beliefs.

Well, to be fair (to everyone), there are facts and there are opinions. Both are important. In the thread you are referencing, your math was incorrect (a fact). However, in your opinion, the additional risk was not worth the reward. That is CERTAINLY a valid opinion - in fact, MANY people have that opinion. Many people who fully understand that mathematically, using historical investment returns, a mortgage is actually beneficial instead choose to appeal to their psychological side and pay off the mortgage. And there is NOTHING wrong with that.

I will be the first to admit that I chastised too much in that thread out of frustration - I am sorry. My attempts, at least, were to dispel the incorrect math and to clarify to others (who are on the fence) that, given the ability to take some additional risk, there is reward to be had. Whether that reward is worth the risk is up to them.

[GREENBACK]

Originally Posted by littleroc02us

therefore there is no way I would keep posting or helping people on this forum when I don't respect a lot of the people on it. See ya, I've never felt so unwelcome anywhere in my entire life. Those 2 members need help.

Maybe you could listen more and opine less. Don't be overly argumentative. That's why it's called a "forum". Sorry if you don't get that.

[Shewillbemine]

This is a free internet forum and site. If you're going to participate, grow thicker skin. Don't take the internet so seriously. You'll live longer.

[herdjohnson]

[MonkeyMama]

Originally Posted by GREENBACK

Maybe you could listen more and opine less. Don't be overly argumentative. That's why it's called a "forum".

I think you reap what you sow.

I never 100% agree with everyone on this forum, but I have learned a lot. Thankfully, I don't have to agree with everyone (an impossible feat).

If you sit back and listened you would learn a lot here. I know DR has his strict teachings aimed at people digging their way out of a hole. This forum is filled with financially sound individuals, finance professionals, etc., who have done quite well. (As well as people just starting out and wanting to learn more about finances, and everything in between). You may have learned how to dig your way out of a hole, but you have much to learn. If you sat back and listened you'd probably have a large amount in common with most of the people in this forum. If I had a dollar for every DR fan who came through and called me a "debt lover" because I would utilize credit card rewards or a low-interest mortgage. In truth, I run pretty far extreme on the anti-debt side of the scale. We'd have a lot in common. That said, I never constantly attack and berate the people on this board who are less debt or risk-adverse. That is their choice - I don't have to live by their decisions. Some of them will even do quite well. Different doesn't mean *wrong.*

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by littleroc02us

Since most of the people who control the airwaves on this forum

What does this even mean - "control the airwaves"? This is an open forum. It is moderated so stuff like spam and profanity gets deleted as soon as one of us sees it (yes, I am one of the moderators). Personal attacks typically get warnings through private messages and potentially banning if it persists. But all in all, I think things stay pretty civil here compared to a lot of other sites.

A hard core Dave Ramsey follower is going to encounter a good deal of pushback here because some of DR's core principles really don't make any sense financially or mathematically - and Dave Ramsey freely admits that. He says all the time that his focus is on behavior, not math. You can earn money with responsible use of credit cards. You can earn money with responsible utilization of debt. You can earn money investing in things other than the 4 types of stock mutual funds Dave recommends. I know because I have done and continue to do all 3 of those things.

So anyone coming here needs to keep an open mind. Your personal philosophy, or whatever philosophy you've adopted from the guru of your choice, isn't perfect and is always open to discussion and interpretation. I happen to like Dave Ramsey. I think he gives good down to earth advice. But I also disagree with a number of things he preaches. I have yet to find any guru who I agree with 100% of the time. That's life.

[MonkeyMama]

Originally Posted by disneysteve

I happen to like Dave Ramsey. I think he gives good down to earth advice. But I also disagree with a number of things he preaches. I have yet to find any guru who I agree with 100% of the time. That's life.

That's the irony. I like DR too. I am sure many of us do.

[jpg7n16]

Originally Posted by littleroc02us

Since most of the people who control the airwaves on this forum believe that Debt isn't risk, I can no longer believe in the credibility of this forum. There are members such as Jpg7n16 who make immature comments such as: LittleRoc is super irriating to me, Way to show me up, You don't want to get into a math debate with me. Create another thread and you and I can debate over there, I never trust your math, I never trust your math.

Yes, I did say that.
No, I don't control any airwaves.
Yes, I do post here a lot.
Yes, I am human and get irritated.
Yes, I believe that debt doesn't have risk. (as discussed in the other thread)
Yes, I'm more argumentative/vocal than some others on this forum.
Yes, your math in your posts virtually always has issues, that you base your opinions and suggestions off of, and insult us based on.

or LivingAlmost Large who says things like: Littleroc doesn't understand basic math, basic taxes, basic budgeting period. Probably because he's never owned stocks and investments so actually paying taxes on stocks doesn't comprehend.

These are the responses you will get from members who don't agree with your beliefs.

Only if you believe that you are taxed on the value of your investments, not the gain, and attempt to use that incorrect belief to prove us wrong and justify your insults.

As was clearly evident by the comment LivingAlmostLarge made that about - you were deducting taxes based on the VALUE of securities that were in a loss position. (bought $160k worth of securities which fell in value to 106k, and you wanted to tax the entire 106k at 25% - to show why it was so bad to invest in the stock market) That's not how taxes work. If you really knew how taxes work, you would have known that when you lose money on a security, you don't owe any taxes.

You made the same mistake in another thread where you tried to assert that paying cash for a home would give you a higher net worth than investing at 8% (again your faulty math showed up) - and again your same error on taxation showed up. Where you taxed the two investors on the entire value of their portfolio, and not solely on the gain of their portfolio.

It's pretty evident that you personally don't understand how taxation of investments works, because your examples consistently show the same flaw.

So it wasn't an attack because we disagreed with your beliefs about debt - it was a correction that you didn't apply the proper calculation for taxation, and didn't understand the principles involved... which then gave you faulty answers, which led to a wrong conclusion.

Those 2 members need help.

Don't we all?

I think creating a thread just to bash me and LivingAlmostLarge shows just how mature you can handle the situation.

[dczech09]

Ok excuse me. Aren't we all adults here? I've had some heated arguments with people on the forum, but that is what I enjoy most about this forum. This forum is filled with actual people, meaning there will be differences in opinion.

I for one agree that debt has inherent risk, however I also enjoy reading what jpg7n16 has to say as it is interesting to see other points of view. Point is, don't be a baby.