How do you feel about helping family members with debt?

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by jaine

So I'm helping my brother with his debt, $250 a month. Then I found out he quit his new job. Mostly because it wasn't creative enough and they wouldn't let him keep the blue highlights in his hair (they originally said they would). I'm starting to question whether or not I want to keep helping him. Quitting a new job just doesn't seem like something he would do if he were really motivated to pay it off. I don't want to be pulling more weight than him. I might end up telling I have some debt of my own that I have to snowball. And then double up my college savings for my little sister....at least she is motivated to do something with my help!

And that is the problem with handouts and entitlement programs, whether they come from the government or from a well-meaning relative. Rather than encouraging people to do more on their own, the opposite occurs. It makes people lazy because they know they have that money coming in. They become dependent on the handout. Keep us informed as to what happens when you cut him off. I fear it won't be pretty but I wish you the best.

[My English Castle]

I've had some bad experiences lending to friends, and I currently have a friend who is struggling with her brother's housing issues. They're in the middle of settling her mom's estate, and she gave him some of the cash early so he could buy a house and get the $8000 Federal money. What did he do with it? He went to Colombia to see a woman he met on line. arrrgh.

I'm sure there are appropriate times to lend to family, but so often it's a problem.

[disneysteve]

jaine, I'm curious - are you actually paying debts for your brother or are you giving the money to him with the intent that he use it to pay debts? If the latter, what are you doing to make sure that he is actually sending that money to his debts and not spending it elsewhere?

[mmgarren@yahoo.com]

Most of the time I would say no. I've talked to my daughter and her husband about living within their means and loaned them about 38,000. for about 10 years. I paid for it dearly with missed economic opportunities and more financil pressures now since I am 70 years old and would feel more secure if I had the money. I chalk it up to experience and wouldn't do it again.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

Wow, that sure was soon after you posted your question. Coincidence?

[jaine]

I only helped him 1 month so far. I'm really not sure what I want to do next.

There are 2 things that make this a gray area for me:

A) I know, without a doubt, I would quit too, just like he did, if I started a new job and I didn't like it. I have done it in the past - there's the proof! A few years ago I started what I thought was going to be a software development job, it turned out to be a quality assurance job (basically a career dead end for me) so I quit soon after starting, without another job lined up. And that was in the middle of me trying to pay off some debt. Deja vu. It worked out just fine BTW ... I got another job and paid off the debt.

B) $250/month is not a lot of money to me. I could spend that much on an impulse purchase without derailing my budget - in fact I almost did the other day. If help him for a full 12 months, that's only 3% of my income, but (I'm just guessing?) probably about 30% of his.

I'm just keeping the wheels turning for now while I decide. No point to rush a decision since the amount is so small and I would have done the exact same thing if I were him, starting a new job that I didn't like.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by jaine

If help him for a full 12 months, that's only 3% of my income, but (I'm just guessing?) probably about 30% of his.

I doubt that this is true. That would mean he only earns about $9,000/year.

If you are committed to helping him, and he is accepting your help, I think he needs to be willing to sit down with you and open his books. You should know how much he earns, what his expenses are, how much his debts are, etc. I wouldn't just blindly give him money without knowing the details of his situation.

[jaine]

I think I can either give freely, or not at all... the "strings attached" kind of help just doesn't sit right with me. It would bother me deeply to give or receive help with strings attached. I think I have to just think about this for a while and decide if I'm comfortable giving freely. If not then I'll come up with something that I need to redirect the money towards. Under no circumstances would I ever tell him "I disapprove of something you're doing" - because I'm not there, I'm not him, and I have no clue about his reasons. I just don't think that adults have the right to tell each other what to do. If giving him money makes me think that I have that right, then I shouldn't give him money.

I think the squeamishness comes from a bad memory of my dad trying to use money to influence my dating decisions when I was in college. He threatened to stop helping me pay for college if I continued to date the guy I was with. I turned down the money, got a second job, and moved in with the guy just to make a point and teach my dad a lesson. It's wrong for adults to try to tell each other what to do. (BTW, the point was taken and my dad doesn't try to steer my life any more.)

[disneysteve]

I realize you don't want there to be strings attached, but whether you actually attach those strings or not, they will exist. Ask yourself how you will feel if you are giving him $250 every month to help with debt and later learn that he has been spending it on beer or gambling or women or premium pay-per-view cable shows or video games or anything else other than debt. Will you be okay with that or will you feel cheated or betrayed? How will that affect your relationship with your brother? Is potentially putting that kind of wedge between the two of you worth it?

[Like2Plan]

Originally Posted by jaine

I think I can either give freely, or not at all... the "strings attached" kind of help just doesn't sit right with me. It would bother me deeply to give or receive help with strings attached. I think I have to just think about this for a while and decide if I'm comfortable giving freely. If not then I'll come up with something that I need to redirect the money towards. Under no circumstances would I ever tell him "I disapprove of something you're doing" - because I'm not there, I'm not him, and I have no clue about his reasons. I just don't think that adults have the right to tell each other what to do. If giving him money makes me think that I have that right, then I shouldn't give him money.

Jaine,
I think you are already there... You are already questioning whether you want to give to him under the circumstances...

The 9,000 a year income makes me wonder--Is your brother an adult on his own or is he still living with your parents? I guess I am wondering if his basic needs are being met and this is something beynond that.

[jaine]

He's living with parents until the debt is paid off. I don't know what his income is exactly, but it's not enough for him to get a place of his own
I'm still thinking about whether or not I can give freely. I think I might get a head start on my 2010 taxes and see if I'll owe anything to Uncle Sam next April ... if so, there's my decision ...

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by jaine

He's living with parents until the debt is paid off. I don't know what his income is exactly, but it's not enough for him to get a place of his own

I guess we (or at least I) really can't comment any more on the situation with your brother without knowing the details. How old is he? How much does he earn? What is all the debt from? Stuff like that. Maybe helping him get started in life isn't such a bad idea if he is on the right track. I just worry, as I've expressed, that he may not be or that the handouts are enabling him rather than empowering him. From what you've posted, it sounds like you don't know the details either. If that's true, I'd suggest you ask some questions and find out before just blindly handing over money that you may regret giving later when you learn more. It isn't worth wrecking your relationship with your brother.

[maat55]

[quote]

Originally Posted by jaine

A) I know, without a doubt, I would quit too, just like he did, if I started a new job and I didn't like it. I have done it in the past - there's the proof! A few years ago I started what I thought was going to be a software development job, it turned out to be a quality assurance job (basically a career dead end for me) so I quit soon after starting, without another job lined up. And that was in the middle of me trying to pay off some debt. Deja vu. It worked out just fine BTW ... I got another job and paid off the debt.

This I have a problem with. Not liking a job is no excuse to quit it when you need income. It is one thing to be abused on a job and quit, but not liking it just means you keep looking while you pay the bills. IMO, this is no economy to be choosey in.

A few years ago, my brother got fired for a bad work ethic and attitude(which I fired him for once). After learning this, his wife quit her job the next day. They soon ran up their CC's and filled BK. Neither had to be without an income.

[disneysteve]

[quote=maat55;261837]

This I have a problem with. Not liking a job is no excuse to quit it when you need income.

Having done just that, I suppose I have to disagree. However, I always use my experience as an example of the benefits of living below your means and having a fully-funded EF. That allowed me to quit a job where I was unhappy and not have to worry about how I was going to feed my family until I found another job.

[maat55]

[quote=disneysteve;261839]

Originally Posted by maat55

Having done just that, I suppose I have to disagree. However, I always use my experience as an example of the benefits of living below your means and having a fully-funded EF. That allowed me to quit a job where I was unhappy and not have to worry about how I was going to feed my family until I found another job.

To me, it is not an option when you have to borrow to survive. You and I could get away with it due to our backup resources, the OP's brother has none.

[expo09]

It would completely depend on the situation. It depends who it is, why they have money problems, whether I think they would be respoonsible with the money I gave them, and obviously whether or not I could afford to.

I would certainly consider it if I was in a position to help.

[jaine]

[quote=maat55;261837]

This I have a problem with. Not liking a job is no excuse to quit it when you need income. It is one thing to be abused on a job and quit, but not liking it just means you keep looking while you pay the bills. IMO, this is no economy to be choosey in.

A few years ago, my brother got fired for a bad work ethic and attitude(which I fired him for once). After learning this, his wife quit her job the next day. They soon ran up their CC's and filled BK. Neither had to be without an income.

I'm with Steve on this one ... there are plenty of situations where leaving a job is a good idea. The job I quit would have been a career dead end for me. I had $10K in cash and could have supported myself for several months, but the job search only lasted a week. Quitting that job was one of the best decisions I ever made because it allowed me to find my way to my current job, which I love.

[maat55]

Originally Posted by jaine

I'm with Steve on this one ... there are plenty of situations where leaving a job is a good idea. The job I quit would have been a career dead end for me. I had $10K in cash and could have supported myself for several months, but the job search only lasted a week. Quitting that job was one of the best decisions I ever made because it allowed me to find my way to my current job, which I love.

Having reserve funds gives you options, not having them only leads you to borrow.

[TheStreetCeo]

My sister is a single mother of a teenager who is out of control. Both of them have no clue as to what a budget is and are always in trouble with money. She owns her own home has an old car and credit card debt. In the middle of winter her car froze up. It had finally died.
Up to that point there was no way I was giving her or her daughter anything but direction to clena up their act. When her car died, I felt i had to step in and get her some proper wheels. If I hadn't she may havew lost her house and would have had no choice but to live on thestreets or move in to my moms house. In otherwords her wreckless lifestyle would have affected our entire family more than the three grand it cost me to buy her a car that would last and keep her out of my moms house or on the street.

[tdls17]

Hi,

I've helped some members of my family; however others did not want to take any advice on debt elimination. It boils down to a pride issue and personalities. I'd take a soft approach and ask to let me know if I can help. They'll get back to you if they're serious about helping themselves out.

I hope this helps..

Denise
Eliminating Debt, Cures Offering Quick And Clear Solutions To Get Out Of Owing