Comments on: Disney World On The Cheap - Prius Harms Environment More Than Hummer http://www.savingadvice.com/blog/2007/04/16/101331_disney-world-on-the-cheap-prius-harms-environment-more-than-hummer.html Bridging the gap between saving money and investing Mon, 13 Oct 2008 00:05:50 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Wai Yip Tung http://www.savingadvice.com/blog/2007/04/16/101331_disney-world-on-the-cheap-prius-harms-environment-more-than-hummer.html#comment-37972 Wai Yip Tung Thu, 19 Apr 2007 22:59:51 +0000 http://www.pfadvice.com/2007/04/16/disney-world-on-the-cheap-prius-harms-enviroment-more-than-hummer/#comment-37972 The report has been roundly critized before. The journalist should use their brain before quoting it for shock value. That Prius has a lifespan of 100,000 miles but hummer has 300,000 miles seems like a make up number for their conclusion. http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/03/20/1858204&from=rss http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/24/questionable-report-claims-hummer-is-greener-than-prius/ Here is more. What it claims is very should consider the production cost and not only the operation cost. Fair enough. A hummer weight 6400 pound and a Prius weight about 2932 pound. The battery weight only about 125 pound (http://www.eaa-phev.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius_Battery_Specs 68kg), (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius 45kg). The different is 3593 pound of steel vs 125 pound of battery. A bet 3593 pound of steel takes lot more energy to produce. The report has been roundly critized before. The journalist should use their brain before quoting it for shock value. That Prius has a lifespan of 100,000 miles but hummer has 300,000 miles seems like a make up number for their conclusion.

http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/03/20/1858204&from=rss

http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/24/questionable-report-claims-hummer-is-greener-than-prius/

Here is more. What it claims is very should consider the production cost and not only the operation cost. Fair enough. A hummer weight 6400 pound and a Prius weight about 2932 pound. The battery weight only about 125 pound (http://www.eaa-phev.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius_Battery_Specs 68kg),
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius 45kg). The different is 3593 pound of steel vs 125 pound of battery. A bet 3593 pound of steel takes lot more energy to produce.

]]> By: fractalbrothers http://www.savingadvice.com/blog/2007/04/16/101331_disney-world-on-the-cheap-prius-harms-environment-more-than-hummer.html#comment-37075 fractalbrothers Tue, 17 Apr 2007 14:45:15 +0000 http://www.pfadvice.com/2007/04/16/disney-world-on-the-cheap-prius-harms-enviroment-more-than-hummer/#comment-37075 it might not be true with the hummer, but it is true with the V8 mercedes S class, a gas guzzler BUT with almost zero emissions.. top gear (UK show) verified this as well. it might not be true with the hummer, but it is true with the V8 mercedes S class, a gas guzzler BUT with almost zero emissions..
top gear (UK show) verified this as well.

]]> By: Brock http://www.savingadvice.com/blog/2007/04/16/101331_disney-world-on-the-cheap-prius-harms-environment-more-than-hummer.html#comment-36751 Brock Mon, 16 Apr 2007 18:07:32 +0000 http://www.pfadvice.com/2007/04/16/disney-world-on-the-cheap-prius-harms-enviroment-more-than-hummer/#comment-36751 That Prius vs. Hummer nonsense has been thoroughly debunked. The "study" was done by a marketing firm. It talks about environmental damages from nickel mining & processing that occurred DECADES ago; the plant has been considerably cleaner since about 1994. As samerwriter mentions, it assumes a Hummer will drive three times as long as a Prius, based on other "luxury" vehicles. And the opinion piece (NOT a news article) you link to is written by the president of a conservative seniors group. (From their website: "The 60 Plus Association is a non-partisan seniors advocacy group with a free enterprise, less government, less taxes approach to seniors issues.") Samerwriter mentions accounting for externalities. The Prius vs. Hummer "study" doesn't account for the cost of the emissions from either car, in part because no one does that now. I imagine that if you added in the costs of making each car carbon-neutral over its lifetime -- even without fixing the other things that are wrong about the numbers -- the two vehicles would move closer to parity. That Prius vs. Hummer nonsense has been thoroughly debunked. The “study” was done by a marketing firm. It talks about environmental damages from nickel mining & processing that occurred DECADES ago; the plant has been considerably cleaner since about 1994. As samerwriter mentions, it assumes a Hummer will drive three times as long as a Prius, based on other “luxury” vehicles. And the opinion piece (NOT a news article) you link to is written by the president of a conservative seniors group. (From their website: “The 60 Plus Association is a non-partisan seniors advocacy group with a free enterprise, less government, less taxes approach to seniors issues.”)

Samerwriter mentions accounting for externalities. The Prius vs. Hummer “study” doesn’t account for the cost of the emissions from either car, in part because no one does that now. I imagine that if you added in the costs of making each car carbon-neutral over its lifetime — even without fixing the other things that are wrong about the numbers — the two vehicles would move closer to parity.

]]> By: samerwriter http://www.savingadvice.com/blog/2007/04/16/101331_disney-world-on-the-cheap-prius-harms-environment-more-than-hummer.html#comment-36745 samerwriter Mon, 16 Apr 2007 17:37:11 +0000 http://www.pfadvice.com/2007/04/16/disney-world-on-the-cheap-prius-harms-enviroment-more-than-hummer/#comment-36745 I've seen a couple criticisms of that study that seem legitimate. The article didn't mention it, but apparently the study assumed the Prius had a lifetime of 100,000 miles and the hummer had a lifetime of 300,000 miles. But the point remains that we are far too focussed on simple MPG numbers without properly accounting for externalities in the production and disposal of vehicles. I’ve seen a couple criticisms of that study that seem legitimate. The article didn’t mention it, but apparently the study assumed the Prius had a lifetime of 100,000 miles and the hummer had a lifetime of 300,000 miles.

But the point remains that we are far too focussed on simple MPG numbers without properly accounting for externalities in the production and disposal of vehicles.

]]> By: Boston Gal http://www.savingadvice.com/blog/2007/04/16/101331_disney-world-on-the-cheap-prius-harms-environment-more-than-hummer.html#comment-36675 Boston Gal Mon, 16 Apr 2007 13:09:37 +0000 http://www.pfadvice.com/2007/04/16/disney-world-on-the-cheap-prius-harms-enviroment-more-than-hummer/#comment-36675 The article about the Prius is a bit slanted. It failes to mention that Nickle - once mined - is infinitly recyclable. While lead acid in car batteries is 99% recyclable. So these incredibly corrosive manufacturing have a big upfront impact - but less over time (since they are recyclable. Other processes in manufacturing a traditional vehicle have less upfront impact - but the longer term net impact (higher emissions, more gas used, etc) can be just as bad. As you say - it is complicated. The article about the Prius is a bit slanted. It failes to mention that Nickle - once mined - is infinitly recyclable. While lead acid in car batteries is 99% recyclable. So these incredibly corrosive manufacturing have a big upfront impact - but less over time (since they are recyclable. Other processes in manufacturing a traditional vehicle have less upfront impact - but the longer term net impact (higher emissions, more gas used, etc) can be just as bad.

As you say - it is complicated.

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